Programming @4-ch

Programming @4-ch

Be it HTML, C++, Java or whatever language you prefer, programming is what we do best around this board.
Markup languages are also fine around here, as with all the "not so real" languages of Shell script, CSS, and other various third party scripting languages.
  • We are sick of language discrimination, more so the PHP/Java bashers. There will be little tolerance of blatant and repetitive insults. You are still welcome to bring forward a sensible, insult-free argument regarding a certain topic at the appropriate time and place for it.
  • Please use WakabaMark or the appropriate HTML tags (with HTML enabled, of course) to format your code.
Rules · 規則
基本的には英語の使用を強く希望します。ただ日本語板の場合は日本語か英語。
Board look: Blue Moon Buun Futaba Headline Mercury Pseud0ch Toothpaste
1: Beginner programming. (10) 2: >EXPERT HTML PROGRAMMER (18) 3: Why can't you find /secert lounge/ RedCream, WHY? (3) 4: [Sharing]Your personal projects[Inspiration] (8) 5: [perl] Kareha resources (17) 6: GameBoy Color emulator in JavaScript (15) 7: my own "yet another imageboard-script" (116) 8: What is your definition of "freedom" ? (14) 9: Backup tweets (5) 10: Tcl/Tk (25) 11: Scala thread (4) 12: Live coding tool (5) 13: [Code Help]General code help?[PHP] (12) 14: Is this board alive? (3) 15: Is Perl a dead language? (29) 16: How to make my own imageboard (6) 17: Interpreted vs. compiled labguages (30) 18: world4ch's /prog/ Emergency Shelter #4 (9) 19: This is the official /prog/riders thread (11) 20: Is Ruby as inefficient as they say (6) 21: Coding Challenge #2! (114) 22: Operating Systems vs Artificial Intelligence (3) 23: 6.034 (6) 24: Best language for starting out in functional programming? (20) 25: [SICP] LEARNING TIME [PY] (4) 26: HAX MY ANUS (2) 27: OOP vs functional (11) 28: Active (6) 29: Introduction to complexity and the idea od quantum computers (3) 30: Opinions of Codecademy? (8) 31: Programming languages with fast matrix operations (15) 32: [JS] Help me find out the correct speed to sync up with the song 太陽いわく燃えよカオス (5) 33: "4tran"? (52) 34: Spoilers in Wakaba (16) 35: Which one? (4) 36: I reproduced an error I found in safari. (3) 37: Google app engine (2) 38: Shitpostan (2) 39: What is the diff between RSS and Atom feeds? Is one better? (2) 40: Excessive file access in a perl script? (10)

Beginner programming. (10)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-07 23:35 ID:Y+JE2qHF

Know absolutely nothing about programming but want to learn etcetera...

Used computers all my life but know nothing about the codes inside them. I keep coming up with ideas for computer programs which are based on a few simple tasks or calculations which I think a computer could do but I have no idea how to implement them. I think I should get to the level of making a simple card game or something. Then work my way up to making scripts, something that could open up opera browser, search through a site for certain links, open them up and search for pieces of text and put them into a spreadsheet. That would be useful for my stock market research.

For now though I am a complete pleb and don't even know what software I need or how to take the first step. Here are some links I found that I will look at.

http://kickassproxy.me/beginning-programming-with-c-for-dummies-wiley-2014-pdf-golu-t9390415.html

http://it-ebooks.info/book/1256/

https://reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/2qznse/i_need_serious_help_learn_to_program_was_my_new/cnb1luk

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2 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-14 12:26 ID:wL4Mq0w2

There lots of tutorials out there, but I think most of them are pretty bad since they don't really allow you to see results. In fact, many newbies who try to get into programming get frustrated because once they finish all the tutorials and get a solid (if very abstract and theoretical) knowledge of a languages don't know how to put these skills to use. They may know how to print "Hello world!" onto a console screen, but from there to creating actually useful programs is a long way.

From your post I assume what you're looking for is a way to really jump into the deep water without prior knowledge. I actually think this is the best way to get used to programming. My recommendation to you is to start programming in the C# language on the .NET framework. The .NET framework comes with a thingy called Windows Forms which allows you to set up and run a functional window with buttons and everything in mere minutes. Creating stuff in it isn't complicated. You can choose to drag and drop stuff like checkboxes and textboxes onto your design, resize them and set their properties and start programming functions for them simply by double-clicking them.

Now in more practical term, what you're going to need to download is Microsoft Visual Studio. You can either get the freeware Express version, or get the more serious and feature-ful versions through less legal means. Once you download and install it, just open a new Windows Forms project and start toying around, see what you can figure out by yourself before looking up help online.

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3 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-14 17:20 ID:sU/XF9h2

>>2
Oh thanks this is just what I need. Also I have heard from many sources that programming is more about constructing programs and less about memorizing code, this raises my confidence a little, assuming I am imagining what coding is like correctly.

What code would a space flight simulator need? You'd need the locations of the planets, which could be simplified as points with the equations for gravitational pull, more code could be added later to give them movement. You'd need some equations for the space rocket, current velocity, location, thrust, acceleration determined by both gravity and thrust, and how these things all affect each other. Then you'd need something for the graphics, I'd create something like a graph, like if I am at a location looking in a direction what would be in view. If I had to graph something from scratch I'd have to model some kind of grid maybe, I don't know, every pixel is assigned a row and a column which equal x and y as determined by the math or something.

On top of that you might need some aids for the user, navigation, computer assisted acceleration/deceleration so you don't hurtle into planets at the speed of light. Maybe add some things like upgrades or trading goods. Sound effects would be good too, the low hypnotic amniotic rumble of the engines increasing in pitch as you increase the thrust.

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4 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-14 18:40 ID:wL4Mq0w2

I would start out by really lowering your expectation and goals. A space flight simulator is waaaay out of you league. If it's a 3D one then it's going to take me at least a month to create.
Seriously, put that thought to bed now. You're not going to start out by creating space simulators, and if you even try you're going to get yourself extremely frustrated. You can expect to create some very basic stuff like pong when you start out. Even tetris and pac-man is going to take a lot of effort, and you won't graduate to that stuff until you know the basics of the language itself.

Then again, the choice is fully yours. If you want to jump into SFML off the bat let me know. I'll give you specific instructions of how to download/install SFML (that was something I struggled with when I was just starting out) and even give you some basic code to get you started.

You don't "download" .NET framework and Windows Forms. Widnows Forms is part of the .NET framework, and the .NET framework comes integrated in every copy of Visual Studio. It's kinda hard to explain it all since I'm trying to keep it very simple and avoid using lingo.

And about that brain issue... Nope, sorry. I don't even know what half of those words mean.

5 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-16 17:25 ID:ARjUSA40

Learn C get "The C programming language" and a pc unix distro and related software and syscall/library routines manpages, it's the best.

>My recommendation to you is to start programming in the C# language on the .NET framework.

No don't, this is the worst.

>>2

>The .NET framework comes with a thingy called Windows Forms which allows you to set up and run a functional window with buttons and everything in mere minutes. Creating stuff in it isn't complicated. You can choose to drag and drop stuff like checkboxes and textboxes onto your design, resize them and set their properties and start programming functions for them simply by double-clicking them.

I already can get very functional windows just by clicking a button, doesn't mean you gain any programming insight.

6 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-16 17:29 ID:9IwlZYjI

>>5
I started programming only 2 years ago, but I was trying to get into it for years before that. I just told him what eventually helped me get serious about it. I went through entire tutorial series about the basics of C, the basic of C++ and the basics of Java and every time I finished a series and just stood there saying "okay, now what?"

Having an achievable goal and visual results to your work is very encouraging

7 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-17 09:55 ID:0IBCaKsJ

I recommend using precision magnets to manipulate the individual bits in your RAM and write programs in raw machine code. It's really hard to get the hang of, but once you master it, people like >>5 can't be snobs to you.

That or you can ignore them and learn in whichever way helps you stay motivated to keep practicing, which usually isn't low level programming now that there are perfectly good alternatives that are much easier to work with.

C# is also what the Unity game engine uses, which might be worth looking into if you're interested in making games.

8 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-23 18:07 ID:NomqDisZ

>>7
You're exaggerating. A lot of shit in C isn't so difficult for someone just beggining, and if they're learning out of interest, they don't have to master bit operations immediately.

>>6
It sure is encouraging, but I like the shell interface, so I don't think of programs that run on a terminal as lowly goals.

And there you can get results fast using C or even asm.

9 Name: CODE!SSnC1HBUt6 : 2015-02-26 19:43 ID:sU/XF9h2

>>4-8
The argument between you 2 has put some perspective on things.

Yes, it has been 12 days. I usually just go to sleep when I get home because of schooling and a part-time job but I think I found a way to mitigate the effects of ADD-PI and stop dawdling. I will probably test these suggestions tomorrow and have something more interesting to talk about.

If I don't follow your suggestion it is likely because I can't find the right software to download or something not that I'm taking sides. Also I now have a tripcode.

> in b4 someone makes their own tripcode and claims to be me

Lastly what do you guys think of this game, it is about transistors.

http://www.kongregate.com/games/krispykrem/kohctpyktop-engineer-of-the-people

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10 Name: !iRU13QgZ/U : 2015-02-26 19:46 ID:sU/XF9h2

actually this will be my tripcode

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>EXPERT HTML PROGRAMMER (18)

1 Name: >EXPERT HTML PROGRAMMER : 2014-04-21 17:52 ID:lot+OX0a

>EXPERT HTML PROGRAMMER

9 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-11-08 13:04 ID:6gr+1q6t

>>7,8
S-expressions are a thing, you guys.

10 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-07 07:27 ID:Heaven

>>9
they're a shitty thing. i-expressions are superior.

11 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-07 12:17 ID:Heaven

>>10
I guess you don't write Lisp. Semantic formatting is the antithesis of brevity, expressiveness, and beauty of code. S-expressions, on the other hand, deliberately make syntax not matter at all, by virtue of there being practically none.
If you want a layout-looking markup language then use markdown or whatever other shit is currently popular.

12 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-25 02:07 ID:Heaven

>>11
Shitty, hard-to-read syntax is not the same thing as no syntax.

13 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-01-07 21:18 ID:Heaven

>>12
You clearly don't Lisp.
Come back when you've even tried to use it.

14 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-01-23 20:43 ID:Heaven

>>11

> This SRFI descibes a new syntax for Scheme, called I-expressions, whith equal descriptive power as S-expressions. The syntax uses indentation to group expressions, and has no special cases for semantic constructs of the language. It can be used both for program and data input.
> I guess you don't write Lisp. Semantic formatting is the antithesis of brevity, expressiveness, and beauty of code. S-expressions, on the other hand, deliberately make syntax not matter at all, by virtue of there being practically none.

...

Why do so many LISPers lack basic reading comprehension skills?

15 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-22 13:38 ID:EW0/c6gA

>>14
When you read two sentences with the word ``semantic'' in, do you automatically assume that they have any relation to each other at all? Because those two didn't.
Semantic formatting includes significant whitespace. Absolutely nothing to do with special cases in syntax.
Come on guy, did you even try or were you just finding any excuse to make sweeping judgements on the internet?

16 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-23 13:56 ID:FOyAckLW

fags

17 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-28 09:33 ID:Heaven

>>15
So whether something is "semantic formatting" is determined by what characters it uses? Parentheses are okay, but spaces are evil? Even though S-expressions also use spaces in a syntactically significant way?

18 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-28 13:59 ID:Heaven

>>17
You're clutching at straws now and you know it.

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Why can't you find /secert lounge/ RedCream, WHY? (3)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-10-21 19:22 ID:cPjN8J+6

RedCream you are a blowhard!

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3 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-02-04 01:51 ID:YcVhTRcn

I found it!

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[Sharing]Your personal projects[Inspiration] (8)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-11-08 13:20 ID:p3iUEkWT

What are your (current) hobby projects? What languages or libraries are you using? How usable or complete is it? What makes what you're doing novel or great?
No need to be smug or anything, or get all angry at other people for using <thing you hate>. Just share what you're up to. Add a URL if it's public too, if you want.

I'll start. I'm writing a stack-based language in Racket for use in embedded devices. It's already got Hindley-Milner style type inference, it just needs to actually produce output.
I'm also planning a modal text editor that feels like vim and a music-making program somehow.

But enough about me. Let's get some actual content on the front page of /code/.

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3 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-11-13 01:37 ID:QM49J4Gd

I've started a little handheld GPS tracking/plotting app/script...
Rather modest at the moment, just a save/load function + current path plot..
Uses Js / Droidscript

4 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-26 21:33 ID:bz9OqgWr

Fucking around with Haskell.

5 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-27 00:45 ID:qYL9HV/R

robo raper

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7 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-01-02 05:45 ID:LhLdJ/Hf

A raspberry pi motion camera that uploads photos to somewhere on the web.
I also want it to blink an LED every time a photo is taken but I don't know how to trigger that.

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[perl] Kareha resources (17)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-05-02 18:55 ID:IpwbeqOT

We like Kareha here. What have you noticed in kareha? Have you made any hacks or otherwise made use of it?

I saw that Storlek used Kareha as a base for his blog in the past. This seems sane to me, and not all too hard to do. When you think about it, Kareha is (in essence) a community blog.

Entering "fusianasan" in the name field or "2ch-sep93" in config.pl's date field do two quite obvious things.

pseud0ch.css, interestingly enough, does not support italics by default.

8 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-08-20 23:13 ID:mrBSe2Wz

>>7
Its bi-annual on some sites. It might even be monthly here.

9 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-04 08:04 ID:iMAkilQG

>>2
Seriously though, why did you remove the dates? What purpose did that serve?

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11 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-07 07:19 ID:7NrtL/+s

>>9
all posts on sageru.org are timeless classics.

12 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-12-11 19:37 ID:hZA9235F

I'd really like to see some people get together and work on Kareha and its CSS to make it all 2015 update.

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17 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2015-01-16 03:58 ID:Heaven

>>12
update how? just remove the stuff that's there for compatibility with ancient browsers? switching from XHTML to HTML5? or do you mean make it ugly and hard to use by shuffling everything on the page around randomly and making everything big colored squares that you have to inspect closely to find anything?

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GameBoy Color emulator in JavaScript (15)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2011-08-04 08:17 ID:Qeftnp5w

Someone made a GameBoy Color emulator in JavaScript, now you can play all the classics!
http://www.grantgalitz.org/gamecenter/

6 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2011-12-24 17:25 ID:BvKBdNGo

>>5

wth man

He said JavaScript. NOT JAVA.

7 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2011-12-26 23:20 ID:z8oT3Vji

>>6
Just pretend he was trolling.

Is there any sort of easy-to-read guide or manual on the Game Boy and its instruction set (Z80?)?

9 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2012-01-04 05:53 ID:PyTm9YAw

10 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2012-01-04 09:32 ID:gvG7mhwu

>>7

>(Z80)

Nice ID :o

11 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2012-01-17 19:38 ID:wR2Te6ws

This reminds me of the PC emulator someone wrote in javascript:
http://bellard.org/jslinux/
It isn't very fast, but it's still very impressive.

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my own "yet another imageboard-script" (116)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2007-02-26 01:26 ID:Hw07jnmQ

So - I promised a friend to set up a imageboard for him, but I quickly realized that the only good (open source) imageboard out there is written in Perl.

I didn't take long before I got hooked on the idea of writing my own board.
I have to admit I'm a ruby fanboy (no flameing please :) ), but that doesn't change the fact that 90% of webhosts out there only supports PHP, so I decided to write it in PHP5/MySQL5.

Yesterday I had my first, sort of, working release which I really would like some feedback on.

It's not, in any way, intended to be used in real life yet, but I some of you would help me download it, test it, report problems, give feedback, suggestions etc. etc. etc. It would be really cool :)

thanks in advance

oh yeah - and the URL to the project page is: http://code.google.com/p/4chandk/

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What is your definition of "freedom" ? (14)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-04-22 10:49 ID:kQlYfQNM

Discuss.

5 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-05-30 09:49 ID:lW3PjXp1

I don't have one

6 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-06-13 20:54 ID:4tpzojyy

"Freedom" only really has meaning in context. Freedom to do something, freedom not to have something done to you. On it's own it's an empty ideal.

Seeing as this is a programming board, I assume you mean "freedom" in a free software context, in which case my vote for free license goes to the MIT license. Simple and to the point, and not "copyleft" (which IMO is just trading one master for an arguably more benevolent one.)

7 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-06-20 13:34 ID:Heaven

>>6
Your opinion is not appreciated. GPLv3 is the only license. We don't need shitty companies. We need transparency. Freedom as in free. The end.

8 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-06-20 22:18 ID:4tpzojyy

>>7
Hello Stallman.

9 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-07-02 09:23 ID:5H6su3Ag

But what if I want the freedom to have my work ripped off and exploited for commercial gain by leading companies such as Apple?

10 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-07-11 13:34 ID:xtFFI2kx

>>9
That happens already on their side since they just ignore licences anyway, but if you really want such freedom, just upload your code on the interbutts without a licence.

11 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-08-07 23:41 ID:muqlh1bG

>>10
In some countries, that's rather difficult. Luckily, the WTFPL covers such cases.

12 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-10-14 20:48 ID:bGisZxUq

Freedom = being able to show Micro$oft, Apple and Stallman the middle finger whenever I want to.

13 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-11-13 01:21 ID:c5eCjDpZ

It is my definition of freedom ^^

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Backup tweets (5)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2012-03-28 13:38 ID:DenC9bHu

How would I use wget to backup all a users tweets into a html file? There's 20 tweets per page so you need to iterate { TWEETS/20 } times

3 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2012-05-20 18:01 ID:2e2u3CdO

>>2
Someone did it just in BASH without the API.

Then some guy defaced his site :(

4 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2012-09-14 05:38 ID:Heaven

$ man wget

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Tcl/Tk (25)

1 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-08-24 01:33 ID:LD6S4lTz

Tcl is one of the most underrated computer languages today.

It has a weird syntax, but on the other hand the syntax makes it more extensible than any other language besides the Lisp family.

Tk is reputed for it's antique-looking widgets. However with the latest 8.5 releast TTk, Themeable Tk is the default which means native look on Vista, XP, OSX. (Not Linux though, but what can you call native there anyway?)

So if you don't know Tcl yet, go and learn it. It's extremely simple, has an interactive shell, and will expand your mind... much more than learning most other languages!!

Tcl/Tk rocks!

See http://www.tcl.tk/

16 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E : 2008-08-28 19:17 ID:Heaven

> Python has a peculiar syntax that appeals to hackers because of its simplicity.

Compared to what?

http://svn.python.org/view/*checkout*/python/trunk/Grammar/Grammar?rev=65872

That's not particularly simple.

17 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-08-29 11:27 ID:Heaven

>>15
Jeez, you're bitchy. I take back my previous statement. Take some Midol.

18 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-08-29 21:18 ID:Heaven

>>17

Well fuck you too.

You want to dump on my favorite language? I'll dump on yours.

Lisp is more readable than python. It has fewer parenthesis, and is easier to post/copy/paste into forums with fewer mistakes.

19 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-08-30 00:08 ID:Heaven

>>18
Who the hell said it was my favorite language, and where did you ever read in my post that I didn't like lisp?

Get off the internet.

20 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-08-30 23:51 ID:Heaven

> those with a less immediately readable syntax (for example, C, Haskell, Lisp, or god forbid, APL)

Lisp's syntax is far more readable than Python.

21 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-08-31 03:58 ID:Heaven

>>20
I said immediately. Try explaining a cdr or progn to a non-programmer, both which are very prevalent in lisp. What common Python idioms are likely to pose a problem for a new programmer?
Serious question. I've tried teaching people Python and Lisp both. Of those, Python is far, far easier for the average person to grasp. Not to mention it forces good indentation habits, but that's again a different story.

Once again trying to bring this thread back on topic, Tcl is kind of in the middle. It's fairly easy to teach to people that have at least a basic understanding of programming, but I imagine the complete non-coder would have a difficult time understanding the idiosyncrasies (e.g. the -switches for commands)

22 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-08-31 20:36 ID:Heaven

> Try explaining a cdr or progn to a non-programmer, both which are very prevalent in lisp.

They're just words. All the words that are in lisp, are in this book: http://l1sp.org/cl/ or you can learn about them by typing:

(describe 'WORD)
> What common Python idioms are likely to pose a problem for a new programmer?

It all seems problematic for a new programmer. Explaining why sometimes you use [] lists and sometimes you use () tuples. Explaining why print isn't a method is also problematic. Explaining why they check __name__ also seems to cause problems. Operator-order is also difficult; explaining why they sometimes read a statement right-to-left, and other times from left-to-right seems problematic.

Someone who is familiar with some algol-like syntax such as is seen in a shell or in another language will have a completely different set of problems- the if, postfix-if, yield, self, and so on.

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23 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-09-01 15:18 ID:Heaven

>>22
Caution: Smug Lisp Weenie threadshitting.

24 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2008-09-01 18:16 ID:Heaven

>>23
Caution: Pyfag.

25 Name: #!/usr/bin/anonymous : 2014-09-24 21:19 ID:5RXkJc27

>>22
Lisp is shit. The worst kind of shit: The kind [i]other people swear they like to eat.[/i]

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