To start off let me say that I am an atheist, But not to long ago consented myself a deist. Now I have never beloved that A god or gods have any say in what goes on in our life. Just created the universe and let it be. But living in the bible belt of Texas I know for a fact that I am one of the only ones in my tri-county area to thank like this,
To start off let me say that I am an atheist, But not to long ago consented myself a deist. Now I have never beloved that A god or gods have any say in what goes on in our life. Just created the universe and let it be. But living in the bible belt of Texas I know for a fact that I am one of the only ones in my tri-county area to thank like this,
Now to my question, Do you personally believe in miracles? And if so how do you know from an objective stand point that they were miracles? Ex, A man has cancer, it seems without doubt he’s going to die still his family prays for him, and somehow he makes a full recovery. The family being a very religious one claims god is to thank. But a deist/atheist point of view is “well he would have gotten better in time with or without prayer.” We Need much more irrefutable proof of a miracle, its like I always said,
God seems to help those with curable sickness but will never grow back an amputees leg.
God seems to help those with curable sickness but will never grow back an amputees leg.
... no idea why the last line repeats. oh well
> Now I have never beloved that A god or gods have any say in what goes on in our life. Just created the universe and let it be.
So in the question "who created our universe?", you'd answer God, but the answer "God" wouldn't be for any other question.
> But living in the bible belt of Texas I know for a fact that I am one of the only ones in my tri-county area to thank like this,
You can't possibly know this for a fact. Why do you state that you know it for a fact? This is assumed a posteriori knowledge, which you don't possess.
> Now to my question, Do you personally believe in miracles? And if so how do you know from an objective stand point that they were miracles?
Why should I believe anything? What do you define as a miracle?
Assuming the universe is materialistic, then a miracle would be something unpredictable; if the universe is deterministic, then a miracle would be something unexpectable; another definition of miracle is that which we can't explain. If it can't be explained, or up to the time it was explained, it was a miracle. I'm not sure if one of these is what you have in mind for "miracle", or perhaps something else.
> Ex, A man has cancer, it seems without doubt he’s going to die still his family prays for him, and somehow he makes a full recovery.
Seems without doubt for WHO and HOW has this person concluded this? If we're talking about family relatives, don't you think it's possible for them to misjudge a situation when they're worried about a close person of theirs?
(Seems means perhaps; without doubt means certainly, "perhaps certainly" is not correct)
> Ex, A man has cancer, it seems without doubt he’s going to die still his family prays for him, and somehow he makes a full recovery. The family being a very religious one claims god is to thank.
Why is God the one to thank when a relative doesn't die, but not the one to hate when a relative dies? Why is God the one to thank if an enemy dies, why don't we thank God when an enemy lives?
One could answer "it had to be so and God only knows why". If that is the answer, then clearly we must not thank God because a relative of ours lived; for only God knows why he lived. Perhaps he lived to do evil wrongdoings.
> But a deist/atheist point of view is “well he would have gotten better in time with or without prayer.” We Need much more irrefutable proof of a miracle, its like I always said,
It's impossible to have proof of a miracle. Think about it, what kind of proof suffices? I can't think of anything.
> God seems to help those with curable sickness but will never grow back an amputees leg.
If the sickness is curable why would you ask for Gods help? Is he some sort of lackey, running around for everyone?
You said you were a deist, and now an atheist. That which is common between deists, atheists and theists is that they believe. Deists believe in a creator, theists believe in a God, atheists believe in his absence.
My question to you is, why do you believe? Why not simply contemplate of the possibilies of Gods, creators and such beings, and accept that you can't really answer the question "Which God exist, if one does?"
>What do you define as a miracle?
In my mind a miracle is something that defies all laws of a physical world, and is caused by the direct intervention of a higher power namely a god or gods.
>My question to you is, why do you believe? Why not simply contemplate of the possibilities of Gods
this is a very good point and i agree. To me it seems logical from both a scientific and a philosophical to say with out doubt that there is/isn't a god or gods. but i still call myself an atheist mainly for time saving reasons, but if we were to get deep into my beliefs and dissect them, then i would consider myself a agnostic fundamentalist
>You can't possibly know this for a fact. Why do you state that you know it for a fact? This is assumed a posteriori knowledge, which you don't possess.
this was merely an attempt at humor through sarcasm and hyperbole (a failed attempt now i see)
>If the sickness is curable why would you ask for Gods help?
my poit exactly, you never see prayers to cure aides or other such as of now incurable disease Emphysema, Polio, Ebola, etc.
Well, I don't believe in miracles, but I'm not saying that one may not occur, or hasn't occured (or is not occuring...)
I'm not believing because I see no benefit in believing in miracles. For my current goals and philosophy I think believing in miracles is not helpful.
However, it's known that psychology plays a big part in diceases and viruses, especially to therapies with heavy drugs. If such an individual is convinced to believe in miracles, that may give him hope (which, logically, is false), but which may improve his psychology, and as a result, his condition.
stuff happens... end of story.
the universe is not only stranger than you imagine, it is stranger than you can imagine.
with that in mind, if it happens, that means it can happen and therefore it's not a miracle, but an event. miracles are impossible.
> the universe is not only stranger than you imagine, it is stranger than you can imagine.
How do you know?
Miracle can be defined as something which is usual, unespected and never seen before. There is always possiblity of something unusual to happen. we judge what is a miracle and what is not by common sense, that is, we call it miracle when we couldn't excpect it to happen before.
I can not deny miracles, but I dont beleave who talks about miracles.
I have a question:
Why are you so condescendent with the science that requires you to ask for proof of everything else? It doesn't hold up well against close examination in many cases. That's why it keeps being reformuled every 'x' time.
Requiring evidence for every small thing means you are a moron, not a smart person that will never be fooled. See, I'm not really gona put a camera inside my stomach so you see the miracle healing that took place in there...
The fact that I don't need the meds I used to, should be enough, but apparently it isn't.
[Insert Doctor Manhattan speech here]
>>9
Spontaneous remission is a well-documented phenomenon. No need to invoke supernatural entities.
Also, the reason accepted scientific theories change every so often is not because they don't hold up to close examination, but because new evidence that cannot be explained by existing models requires a new model to explain. It amazes me that many people, Christians in particular, have trouble understanding this.
Here, have a youtube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgGxIxSetJg
I don't have trouble understanding that, I have trouble with science because it accepts downright lies, like psychs