I know this is subjective since a person that knows English would be able to learn Spanish more quickly than say, Chinese. But in light of that please discuss which language you think is the hardest to learn.
I've tried learning alot of different languages (Russian, Polish, Korean, Finnish, Greek,Malaysian etc) but Japanese is the only language that I am actually progressing in. I can learn 80+ words in a day whereas with any other languages such as Russian I struggle to learn just 5 words.
Although Finnish has no relation with Indo European languages,
I found Suomi numbers to be very easy to learn. However, I can't remember Russian numbers. or any other european numbers lol.
yhdeksankymmentayhdeksan= ninety nine
yhdeksantuhatta-yhdeksansataa-yhdeksankymmenta-yhdeksan=9999
For me personally, it would be Welsh or Irish. First off, mutations, I can't keep straight when to use them and when not to. Secondly, there are a lot of irregular conjugations. And not only for the verbs, but for prepositions. And there are not really any rules for this, other than memorize.
Korean, Chines, and Japanese are gramatically easy enough, but do to cultural considerations, it's easy to understand the words and still not be able to say much. They tend to talk around some things to avoid giving offense. But if you don't get the context, you lose out. Or at least sound like the asian equivelent of Cletus the Slackjawed Yokel.
Greek looks tough too, though it can probably be done.
i think, imho, Finnish is the most difficult language after Japanese...i sometimes tried to understand the way such cases as "essive" "ellative" "allative" etc. have to be used.....but is abominiously difficult to learn all of them....and then the fact finnish has (as in every ugrofinnic language) the infamous "wovel harmony", not to mentition the "consonantic weakening", (just squicking)...and then things like using a kind of "tonal pronunciation" which makes changin' the meaning of a word just by slightly swithcing its pronounciation (as in chinese)...definitely not the funniest language to learn....
one good note about it is, by the way, that Finnish has a very soundful and somewhat "spanish-like" sound that's very similar at the Italian's one (my mother language)...at least this....
i tried German, btw...and i must say that those 6 months spent at university (i'm 23) learning it helped me alot in understanding more than ever about English and other Anglo-saxon-germanic-heritage languages....but then i left it because was too hard learning how to tell the hour!!! and because ehr....my stereotypic thoughts about German were a bit too much toony
another very scruffy language but more soundful and french/english-like than german is Dutch....it has a lot of things borrowed (forever) from french and english and both in writing and sounding is "meltingly rough" or better "clumsly harmonic", and grammar is quite easy...way easier than german one for sure...its most exciting (not exactly the right word, but...)feature is that it has 5 or 6 way to say the pronoun "you" , the english like pronunciation of the "R" and "OE" diphtong pronounced as in "shoes"
then another language that drives me crazy (literally) is Hungarian!!! i soooo like it!! although it has some spooky finnish-borrowed feature (like wovel harmony, or case-like suffixes...for example "Magyarorszagban"..."to Hungary", or things like objective and subjective conjugation...which is almost a mistery again for me) it has a really exciting (this time is the right word!) pronounciations thats very different from other ones...for example "ZS" is pronounced as in "juillet" in french....or "dzs" is like in "jack" or even SZ that unlike the other languages, is not as in "ship" but as in "sick" and "C" is like "take" with a very strong "t":zake
but the number one is my favourite language forever: Portuguese (portugal's one, of course) the most roughly joyful, crustly, freanzy, overtightened language i ever heard!! with a really complex grammar but it does really worth an effort to study it!!
and so useful indeed!!! i'm improvin' my knowledge of Spanish of North Italy dialects, of French grammar and pronounciation , adn even British English (and somewhat also German...i'm not joking'!) just learning Portuguese!!! it's just amazing!!!
Polysynthetic languages aren't so hard to learn once you wrap your head around the boundaries between morphemes. You're pretty much good to go for any polysynthetic language then. Fusional languages are much more difficult imo because you get weird stuff happening like irregular verbs and awkward IP constructions, and ambiguity/vagueness is just a whole shitpit kettle of fish you get yourself bogged down in.
I'm learning Aleut at the moment as I'm planning on doing my doctorate on split S system languages (i.e. languages that have both NOM/ACC and ERG/ABS inflectional systems in different situations) and I'm finding it -reasonably- trouble-free (in terms of theory anyway - some of the phonology is proving challenging!), at least compared to the Huallaga Quechua I had to learn. Now THERE'S an interesting language. NOM/ACC, SOV, polysynthetic and with free word order in main clauses. Kept me in my room all fucking summer lol.
actually depending on who you are and your backround of language depends on whats hard. im fluent in 10 languages and i hd french german polish and english as native languages. so i basically conquered europe's languages easily. but i had difficulty with asian languages such as japanese and chinese because i was so use to one sentence thing and the are alike.
>>116 Your in most cases but...
In all Slavic languages I find Slovakian to be the easiest of them all. It may be my mother language, but I haven't even tried to to learn the writing. I may master the speech, but the writing, well... you can forget about that.
As for people saying the Czech is hard, well I could tell you that's it's not much of a difference if you compare Norwegian and Swedish.
>117
For Russian and most of the eastern Slavic languages. Compared to Slovakian/Czech. We do use the letter "H" for most (well "some words") while the most eastern (even Poland) use the letter "G" for certain words that have the same meaning but speleld differently due to the first letter like for example "Shit". Govno in Polish (and in Russian/most former jugoslavian parts as well?) While it's Hovno in Slovakian. I do know that the Czech do have a softer more "richer" spoken language, I could compare that to the "High form" of Swedish/English (that spoken in the medival age, up to like 1800/1900 or so?
>>110 Your are so goddamn right.
All I can say is.. stick to your and your border languages, end of story. If you really need that language, hope for an afterlife, so it may actually be useful other than just learning it for fun (or learning just to travel to another country for befits, if your hate your country that much, DO SOMETHING about it!). You can curse us of for having different religions(or none at all, yay!~)/languages. If the Earth had stayed as Pangea, that way it would've not have been that different.
Telling the time in German is basically the same as English, but with an inverted 'half-past' concept.
Hungarian!! I know ppl who lived there all their life and oouldnt learn it
I think the cause of that is the people being morons, not the language being difficult.
Did anyone ever tried to learn Slovak language :)
Okay, here's a real tongue twister from Finland. A one compound word:
Epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkkäänköhän.
Don't ask a perfect translation for that, it's hard even for a native Finnish speaker. =) But the translation is about like this: Even with his disorganizing skills? etc.
It's a form of a question, but the same kind, kinda rhetorical answer.
Go figure.
learning Korean Hanja would make the Japanese Kanji a breeze...
>>127
Actually it's epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkkäänköhän, with a single K.
The word could be divided into little components, like this:
Epä järjestelmä llis tyttä mättö myydellää nsä kään kö hän
To be honest it's plain nonsense, although it is grammatically correct.
>>119
Why do so many people call it ``wovel harmony''? Am I missing something, or is it just that nobody can spell?
No, it should be "vowel harmony". This is present in quite a number of languages.
I don't know, I would think a variety of locative cases would be better than the weird case-preposition in Russian...
The essive cases seem a bit weird though.
Guys I think everyone writes based on their experience, not based on culture and history....a clear example is noone has mentione Greek..! probably the mother of all western languages and one of the oldest, are you serious?? :)
in my opinion, Greek, arabic and chinese. anglo-saxon languages are simpler trust me.
thanks
Greek is not the mother of Western languages, go read a history of language textbook. It has certainly influenced a variety of western languages, but they did not evolve from it.
>>126
If you know one Slavic language you know them all.
Well, except that you might not be able to read/write Cyrillic.
Well, if you already know English, I would have to say Russian is fairly difficult. Japanese is rather simple once you learn pronunciation.
Cyrillic is pretty easy to pick up.
>>135
I'm not sure that's entirely true across the Eastern, Western, and Southern Slavic lines--if you know one East Slavic language (say, Russian), you can probably fake your way through the others (Ukrainian or Belarusian) with a high degree of accuracy, but you'll have a much harder time doing that in Czech or Serbian. I guess basic comprehension's not necessarily difficult, but there are some pretty significant pronunciation and grammatical variances among the branches.
>>137
Very true; you can read Cyrillic before the end of your first Russian class unless you have a very poor visual memory.
I'm just a simple minded fool, but pronouncing the letters can be tricky too.
From the Finnish point of view, English is a strange language.
For a finn, the Finnish alphabet sounds "right" and the English one is twisted.
Here's how finns pronounce English alphabets
============================================
A - Ei
B - Bii
C - Sii
D - Dii
E - Ii
F - Ef
G - (Tsh)ii
H - Ei(tsh)
I - Ai
J - (Tsh)ei
K - Khei
L - El
M - Em
N - En
O - Ou
P - Phii
Q - Kjuu
R - Aa(r) *
S - Es
T - Thii
U - Juu
V - Vii
W - Vii
X - Eks
Y - (U/V)ai **
Z - (Z)ii ***
** U/Vai has 'open' or 'soft' V in it
*** (Z)ii has 'soft' Z
Here's how english pronounce Finnish alphabets
==============================================
A - U in fuck / A in car
B - B in bee
C - S in see * in swedish-based names, it sometimes is K
D - D in down
E - A in hate
F - F in fuck
G - G in gun
H - H in hate
I - I in shit
J - Y in you
K - K in fuck
L - L in lame
M - M in milk
N - N in no
O - O in open
P - P in please
Q - Q[?]
R - *english doesn't have this sound
S - S in snake
T - T in shit
U - U in you
V - W in wait
W - W in wait
X - X[?]
Y - *english doesn't have this sound
Z - Z[?] - 'hard sound'
Å - O in open
Ä - A in dad
Ö - A in 'a chair', 'a candle', 'a cat', 'a car'
Finnish letter, pronounced as a "letter" and how
it's pronounced when spelled
===================================================
A - a - aa
B - b - bee
C - s - see *in some names like Carlsberg it's K
D - d - dee
E - e - ee
F - f - äf * snobs prefer 'ef'
G - g - gee
H - h - hoo
I - i - ii
J - j - jii
K - k - koo
L - l - äl * snobs prefer 'el'
M - m - äm * snobs prefer 'em'
N - n - än * snobs prefer 'en'
O - o - oo
P - p - pee
Q - k - kuu
R - r - är * I've never heard anyone say 'er'
S - s - äs * snobs prefer 'es'
T - t - tee
V - v - vee
W - v - vee [tuplavee - double v]
X - ks - äks * snobs prefer 'eks'
Y - y - yy
Z - ts - tset
Å - o - oo
Ä - ä - ää
Ö - ö - öö
"Good day to you, my students! It's a fine day - is it not?"
translated so that a finn can pronounce it [almost correctly] even if they don't know english would be
"Guuddei tsujuu, mai stjudents! Its ö fain dei - isit nat?"
So when I'm thinking of what I'm writing, I have to be sure not to write how it sounds in my head.
Because this is how it sounds:
Sou vhen aim thinkin of vhat aim v(r)aitin, ai hav tsu bii shuo(r) nat tsu v(r)ait hau it saunds in mai hed.
And to make things more complicated
===================================
I = Minä
You = Sinä
He/She = Hän *
We = Me
You = Te
They = He
This = Tämä
That = Tuo - not to be confused with "Tuo jotain" = "Bring something"
Instead it has nurse = sairaanhoitaja [lit. sick's caretaker], but a female nurse would be
naissairaanhoitaja [lit. female sick's caretaker] BUT sairaanhoitajatar could also
be used. -tar end can be used in some [career] names.
Ompelija [sewer - career] doesn't tell what sex the person represents. With -tar
ending it becomes clear that ompelijatar means a female sewer. -tar ending would
change into -tär if the career's name would end with ä instead of a:
pilot = lentäjä -> lentäjätär
Fortune [spirit of good luck] = onnetar [this one is always femine]
And here's some extra flavor
============================
I, Me = Minä
My = Minun
I think that.. = Mielestäni
From me = Minulta
(come to) me = (tule) Minuun
(become) me = (tule) Minuksi
(out of) me = Minusta
In me = Minussa
I have = Minulla on
I = Minä
Bring = Tuo
Gifts = Lahjat
Bring the gifts = Tuo lahjat - "tuo" not to be confused with "That ball" = "Tuo pallo"
[Tuo tuo pallo = Bring that ball]
I bring gifts = Minä tuoda lahjat - this is wrong
I bring gifts = Minä tuon lahjoja - this is right
I bring gifts = Tuon lahjoja - this is right
"Tuoda" is the basic form of "to bring"
"Tuon" already tells that "(I) bring"
"Tuot" tells that "(you) bring"
"Tuovat" tells that "(they) bring"
"Tuo lahja" = Bring a gift - as when invited to a party
"Tuo lahja" = That gift - as when talking about a certain gift
Finnish can be spoken without directly saying "I - minä". "Tuon - I bring" already tells that
it is me who is bringing..
And finally..
=============
Kokoa kokoon koko kokko.
Koko kokkoko?
Koko kokko!
Gather up the whole bonfire.
The whole bonfire?
The whole bonfire!
=)
You want to get into that? How about this:
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.
It uses three definitions of the word: Buffalo, the city in New York; buffalo, the four-legged animal; and buffalo, the verb meaning to bully.
Oh, and then there are the words that can be their own antonyms, with only the context to decide which meaning is used. Take 'cleave' for instance. It can mean either to bond closely with something or to cut something in two. Bugger of a word.
Dunno, I'm Lithuanian by birth. I picked up English very easy, far easier then Russian and as a matter of fact, I still heavily suck at Lithuanian and I'm bloody 17.
Japanese was even easier for me to learn to speak then Russian, and I live in an ex-soviet union state. Lithuanian letters are pronounced roughly the same as the Japanese counter parts, for a Japanese to clearly understand me reading Japanese, all I needed was a sheet of Kana to Romanji translations and a basic vocabulary of Kanji.
Try Banyumasan language if u dare...........
Ahh.. I managed to realize that english language does have finnish Y in it: New!
"New" would be pronounced like "njyy" or "nyy".
New Orleans = Nyy Oolians * the R is mute.
Happy new Year => "Frohes neues (Jahr)" (literally only 'happy new', but at that time of the year its clear what you mean.
More informal: "Guten Rutsch" (literally 'good slide', wikipedia claims it originates from a hebrew phrase)
I'd vote Arabic
I vote Segarian. It's impossible to learn to speak it.
Granted, mainly because it doesn't exist.
I've been living in China and picking up Mandarin as I go. I can see how it would be a nightmare in a classroom, but through immersion I've been finding it pretty easy.
Ignoring tones, the spoken language itself is simple compared to English. As for the tones themselves that's a hurdle that takes a couple of weeks to develop an ear for by osmosis but it's natural after that (and I'm assuming that in a classroom you'd be deliberately tackling them and trying to force your brain through tone-shaped holes would be the main reason it'd suck).
When it comes to reading, naturally it's a given that understanding shit you need in your daily life would make retention pretty straightforward... but then again my reading ability is currently limited to things relating to the subway system and restauranting as a result. So while not difficult I'm going to wind up with huge gaps everywhere in my written Chinese. Planning on enrolling in proper classes once I'm more fluent to fix the errors I'm bound to pick up doing what I'm doing.
tl;dr: Agree that the difficulty of Chinese is overrated, but I can see how people get that impression.
Gaelic
>>151
Very informative. Thanks. My boyfriend keeps trying to teach me chinese but i keep thinking i'm too stupid to pick it up or it's too hard. Maybe i'll give it a try, granted I'm not in china but I do have a lot of chances to learn.
>>153
Unless you're both fairly serious about it you'll have slow progress since it's so tempting just to revert back to English all the time, but go for it. Most of my spoken Mandarin was learned from Chinese girlfriends.
> osmosis
?
Well...you could say the same about any other language. If you live in the place, you're bound to pick up a couple of words or two, but that doesn't make it easy >_>.
>>155
That's not even close to what I said.
>>156
You're learning because you live in China, and hence manage to pick up some of the colloquial language. Naturally, your rate of learning will be rapid because you're forced to use it to communicate daily. So this doesn't really justify how "easy" it is compared to other languages. I could say the same thing about living in Italy, and learning Italian. Point is, you can't really compare it to other languages like that without living in other countries and doing the same thing.
spanish D:
>>157
No, I'm learning because I fucking study it in the evenings. If I lived in motherfucking Italy I'm sure I'd just "pick up some of the colloquial language" given the similarity to English, but there is no common ground between English and Mandarin. The "colloquial language" around here is in Cantonese.
All I said was that the difficulty is overrated. You're reading shit into what I said because you wrote something stupid and now feel the need to defend it by twisting my post, so I'll restate my point for the dumbfucks in the audience:
3. Apart from the time it takes to learn to differentiate tones, the language itself is simple. Almost everything about it is easy for a native English speaker.
>Naturally, your rate of learning will be rapid because you're forced to use it to communicate daily.
You're clueless. I went months here without speaking a word of Chinese. Not exactly "forced". My average daily usage is now saying "thanks" to the supermarket chick when she's watching me bag my own beer, and maybe giving directions to a taxi driver on weekends. I set aside time to practice with a Chinese friend at least once a week, just as I would learning a language back home.
for the people who say russian is hard, russian isn't hard and the alphabet is easy also. Polish is harder then russian.
>>136
Before you start questioning other people's intelligence, you might want to consider that that was the impression you gave in your post. You're telling everyone that it's overrated just because of the tones, and that you've managed to pick them up through "osmosis". But my point was that you living there is the main variable between you learning learning Chinese, and say, those learning Chinese in a Western country. I don't think it's overrated because of the tones.
And on a totally different point, fyi, I have been to China. Quite probably around the place you are, seeing as the colloquial language is Cantonese. So I can't relate when you say you were their for months without speaking Chinese. I was there for only a month, and picked up a significant amount of Mandarin, granted I can understand Cantonese. Besides, the fact that you didn't speak it for ages, doesn't that justify how hard the language is?
*there
>the impression you gave in your post
You mean, the way you misinterpereted it. These are different things. People who are not retards think differently than you do! That's why you had to be in a special class at school and weren't allowed to hug everybody.
>Besides, the fact that you didn't speak it for ages, doesn't that justify how hard the language is?
I know foreign teachers that have been in China for years and can't say anything besides the sheer basics. This is common. There are no shared words between English and Chinese, like there are between English and all the other Romance languages, so the usual folk knowledge of simply picking up a language by being in a place does not apply. You do not learn Chinese by eating Chinese food.
I'm not even going to bother adressing the tone issue yet again, because your original misinterpretation is not the argument you're promoting now. What you really meant is only, like, five posts up so I don't know who you think you're fooling.
庭にわ二羽鶏がいる。
niwa ni wa niwa niwatori ga iru.
There are two birds in the garden.
Japanese is hard. F'ing homophones. That's a bit of a famous tongue twister.
きたさんは北から来たと聞いた。
Kita san wa kita kara kita to kiiita.
I heard Kita came from the north.
Er, sorry... the first one is "There are two chickens in the garden."
Wasn't really thinking...
I've heard that Japanese pronouncing would be 'easy' to learn if you are fluent in Finnish. Figured it would be same thing vice versa. There is a word descriping languages whichs pronouncing is how they are written, aw anyway. I don't know how to put it, so bare with me:
Couple of Finnish names
Teemu Selänne
Saku Koivu
Now, what I've heard yankees pronouncing these names they sound like 'Thiimu Selaani' and 'Sakhu Khoiivu'. Of course these sound silly as you can see with the help of >>139 >>140
For instanse 'George W Bush' should be written as 'Tsoots Dabljuu Bus' for a Finn to pronounce it ~correctly. So I guess that what I'm trying to ask is that would it have to be written like that for Japanese to pronounce it ~correctly?