Falling for my best friend (41)

1 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-03 06:06 ID:wC90Alm4

I have a friend. We've never labeled each other as "best friends," but it's sort of an unspoken thing between me and her. We share a lot of the same interests, been there for each other during some tough times in the past, and more importantly, she tells me she trusts me more than anyone else in her life, and I trust her as well. Other friends have remarked that we're almost like brother and sister.

I also had a massive crush on her when we first met, a crush that didn't amount to anything. I got friend-zoned, essentially, and it was also bad timing. I didn't know it at the time, but she was still fooling around with an ex-boyfriend on the down low. It sucked, but we had so much in common that we ended up being really good friends despite it. After that, those old feelings would pop up occasionally. When that happened, I remind myself that having feelings that aren't reciprocated are a waste of time, that I don't want to ruin a good friendship because of it. I like to think that I've been over her since then, but if you read on, maybe that isn't the case with me after all...

She's not good with boyfriends. Most of her ex-boyfriends have treated her wrongly, including a relationship that ended with her getting slapped around, and me getting pissed. I've cheered her on from the sidelines when she thinks she's found someone good for her, and consoled her when things don't go her way, which is more often than she'd like.

She just broke up with her recent boyfriend. We both thought that she might have found someone right for her, but it turned out in the end that he was just too immature to be in a serious relationship, and was just using her. He broke up with her 2 days ago. She texted me at 3 in the morning when it happened, and didn't stop crying the whole day since it happened.

I've spent the last two days talking to her and spending time where I could. I was in her apartment when she said, "I just want a guy who understands me and will love me for who I am," or something along those lines. Something in my mind started to gnaw at me when she said that. I knew what it was, but I didn't want to show it in front of her. When I left her place, it hit me full-on; I want to be that guy. And it really hurts that I'm not.

Now I'm left with a dilemma. I'm not in a relationship currently, and haven't made any serious efforts at one lately since I'm in the final stretch of school and that's taking up a lot of my time. But I've always made time for my friend. Now I've fallen for this girl all over again (or maybe I never stopped liking her, and this was only the catalyst), and it's driving me insane, because I know that she only sees me as a friend, and nothing else. I'm afraid that if I confess again, I'll get rejected again, and it'll possibly ruin a perfectly good friendship. But keeping this bottled up inside of me feels almost as bad. I'm really torn at what I should do.

What do I do?

2 Name: Otakun : 2008-12-03 06:25 ID:ivEzoutV

I was in your shoes during high school, same drama... Years later I found out had I asked her out she would have said yes!

OP, answer me, do you believe that you could make her happy? Do you think that you could be there for her when she needs you in the future? If you said yes, then why not go for it? You can't let the classic dilemma of "If I ask my friend out, it'll ruin the relationship" ruin what could be beautiful. This could honestly be your chance, and I while I was thinking... WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY "I could be that guy" when she said that in her apt!?

OP, what hurts more?
Asking her out and failing?
-or-
Burrying your feelings again, watching from the sidelines while you watch her be taken by another guy, and deeply regretting it?

Seriously, if you're as good as friends as you guys say you are then if she happens to say no, wouldn't you guys be able to get past it?

Just go for it. Sheesh!

3 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-03 07:10 ID:wC90Alm4

>OP, answer me, do you believe that you could make her happy? Do you think that you could be there for her when she needs you in the future? If you said yes, then why not go for it? You can't let the classic dilemma of "If I ask my friend out, it'll ruin the relationship" ruin what could be beautiful. This could honestly be your chance, and I while I was thinking... WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY "I could be that guy" when she said that in her apt!?

OP here.

I believe so, but I don't know if she feels the same way. She's not the touchy-feely greet-each-other-with-a-hug sort of girl, but that never really mattered to me because she really opened herself up to me. She's told me before that our relationship is different from her relationships with the men she's slept with, that it's deeper, but she's never shown any indication, verbal or non-verbal, that she wants something more than friendship out of me. And that's what scares me.

>Seriously, if you're as good as friends as you guys say you are then if she happens to say no, wouldn't you guys be able to get past it?

She was concerned before that we couldn't be friends if I still had feelings for her. I told her that all I wanted was to be able to spend time with her, that I wouldn't let my feelings for her get in the way of our friendship, and I haven't. If I were to confess to her again, I don't know how she would take it, especially so close to a bad breakup. There are just too many "what ifs" running through my head.

You're probably right, anyway. I just have no idea how to break this to her without ruining everything we've shared before.

4 Name: Otakun : 2008-12-03 07:43 ID:ivEzoutV

All in all... Failing and not doing something is losing her all the same.

She could find another guy, go out with him, stick with him, rarely see you for example. Or end up leaving.

Don't take the time you have together now for granted, she might not always be there, especially when you finally decide to do it.

With my old similar experience, she came out of several bad break ups and by the time I was ready to act, someone stole her away. For crying out loud don't let the "what ifs" and hypotheticals stop you!

5 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-03 13:35 ID:wC90Alm4

>She could find another guy, go out with him, stick with him, rarely see you for example.

Funny you should say that; with the last boyfriend, we hadn't spent any time together for a month, which is a pretty long time considering we usually never go a week without seeing each other. But I was okay with it, because she really liked him and had a good feeling about him; I figured she should be spending more time with her boyfriend than me, anyways.

Ironically, when I went to eat lunch with her yesterday, she asked me why I hadn't spent any time with her. I told her I didn't want to be a third wheel; she told me half-jokingly that her ex was kinda quiet, and if all three of us were hanging out somewhere, that he would end up being the third wheel because he was so quiet.

Otakun, you've half-convinced me that I should just give in and tell her. I need to find the right time to tell her. Is it too soon?

6 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-03 14:37 ID:c48joZSm

Just tell her. Right now. If you do I'll reward you with a slice of pizza.

If you don't, I'll hate you.

7 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-03 14:51 ID:fDL+YWcN

Tell her something like "When you get better, I have something I would like us to talk about".

When you approach the subject don't get too emotional or things like it. If what last hurt her is immaturity, show her that you are mature and stable. Talk like adults, tell her exactly what you said in >>1, and see what happens.

Now might be a little too soon, but don't wait too long. You don't want something to happen between you two because she's hurting right now, you want her to consider your offer when she's starting to get better.

Don't blindfold yourself, odds that she accepts and you both happily live ever after aren't that great; but still as >>2 I believe it's worth the shot. And yeah, you'll regret it if you don't.

8 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-03 21:12 ID:wwZMxyA0

I'm seeing her again after I get out of class. I won't say anything yet, but I'll just play it by ear for the next few days and see where it goes. I'm still undecided in confessing to her.

Thanks to >>7 for the insight. I concur with your comment that I shouldn't have any misguided preconceptions about what could happen if I told her.

9 Name: Otakun : 2008-12-03 22:06 ID:ivEzoutV

Since >>6 and >>7 already told you what I wanted to say, I'll leave some last words of wisdom.

Happily ever after isn't something given, its earned. Even if she accepts, after comes the real work. Confessing isn't the hard part!

Don't let what hasn't happened yet ruin what really will come to pass. You're caught in the struggle between your heart and brain OP.

Also remember this... Don't wait for moments to happen. Don't wait for those "special events" in the future that would come. Opportunities do come, but creating them yourself will be better in the end. One more thing... Stop making excuses for yourself! Its too soon... I'm scared... the time isn't right... if you keep selling yourself short it'll always be too soon. I wish I could take my own advice on that one, but you're you and I'm me. You've got one life OP, you shouldn't live it full of regret!

10 Name: WestCoast : 2008-12-04 09:47 ID:dox4nyvw

I can see where you're coming from in terms of debating with yourself about confessing. I've found myself in similar situations several different times. As such, I'd like to think I have some microscopic sort of authority when I say this: if you truly feel like you need to get these feelings out into the open, you might as well. I'm going to answer Otakun's question as it applied to me - the aggrivation from wondering whether or not it'll turn out in your favor RIDICULOUSLY outweighs the pain of getting shot down, both in intensity and duration. She rejects you, it burns for like a week, two tops. You leave it up to speculation, it burns every last time it comes to mind, and considering that it seems to already have been quite a long time, you probably are already familiar with this pain.

Bottom line - go for it, get it over with, bite the bullet, etc. Like I said, worst-case scenario is that you get shot down and you feel like shit for a week or two. If she's as good a friend as you've clearly made her out to be, you'll still be friends and she'll probably have a newfound respect for you for being honest with her. Best-case scenario is...well...you tell me.

11 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-05 14:32 ID:wC90Alm4

OP here.

http://xkcd.com/513/

It hit a little too close to home. You could even call this find serendipitous.

I can't believe I'm saying this because of a webcomic. Your comments gave me pause in what I should do. The comic strip pushed me off the edge. I'm going to tell her, anons, when the time is right. No, that doesn't mean I'm gonna put it off, making excuses that the time is never right. As soon as she feels a little better about the whole thing, I'll tell her. Whatever happens, I'll accept the consequences of my choice and move on.

12 Name: WestCoast : 2008-12-06 08:59 ID:dox4nyvw

>11

I'd like to believe that at least one page of that particular webcomic has hit us all where it counts and makes us feel as if that page was made after the creator listened to us walking down the street or something.

http://xkcd.com/55/

That's the one that hit me like a ton of bricks. If you knew me personally, you'd know that I rub logic all over everyone I encounters' faces (guiltily enough, enjoying it along the way), almost to the point where they'd start getting upset or angry at me. I can put everything within reason, given I know enough about the topic at hand using said knowledge or even math equations in some instances (albeit nowhere near as complex as the ones on the page).

Anyway, I caught sight of this lil' doozy after I broke up with the girl I was going out with (read: "Typical(?) Long Distance Relationship Break-up Problem" if you care to) and it reminded me of how I was in a relatively similar, if not identical, scenario to what you are currently in, OP. I was trying to find "logical bases" as to whether/how/why I should tell this person how I felt about her. This went on for quite a while, and just as the comic illustrated - it didn't work out as well as one would plan. Trying to logically break love down leaves you with nothing but not just pain in the heart, but a sprain in the brain.

Aaanyway...my little side-store...aside...(ba-da-dum...pshhh), I'm glad to see you're taking the steps you feel you need to take. You've already decided to let her know when "the time is right". That's more confidence I've ever had I had when it came to telling the one I cared about how I felt, so my hat's off to you. Best of luck.

13 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-06 19:41 ID:wC90Alm4

OP again. If I'm gonna be posting here, I should use a pseudonym to better identify myself.

My friend and I are supposed to be watching the boxing match tonight with my cousin and his girlfriend. She calls me this afternoon, asking if they were also going to show a college game that was also tonight. I said yeah, and asked why. Then she mentioned that ex-boyfriend's name here was coming and he wanted to see it. I knew the answer, but I asked anyway; why was he coming along? They were, in her words, "back together, but not really." I must've paused for a while, because she asked me if I was okay. I told her that that was my line, and she replied that she doesn't really understand what happened. I don't understand it, either, but I've seen it happen to her before.

It doesn't hurt as bad as I thought it would, anon. In fact, I'm not exactly sure what I'm feeling right now. Ambivalence would be the perfect word to describe it.

Well, at the very least, I'm feeling less excited about the fight tonight.

Not too sure what to do or feel right now.

14 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-06 20:08 ID:ISWJEnd4

I'm having difficulties deciding which one of you is the most hopeless masochist: the girl who doesn't quit failed relationships, or you the guy who doesn't even take the most basic steps in order to get what he wants,... In a sense you are a good fit together.

I think the best would be to cancel the whole thing, or not go yourself, and then arrange a meeting with her where you'll ask her to leave the other guy and go out with you. But of course, being the person you are, this won't happen, and you've just earned yourself a few more weeks/months of melodrama.

15 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-06 20:11 ID:jQUvIuGb

>>12

PROTIP: Be a jerk, be an asshole, be self-confident. You will get laid.

Be nice, be considerate, be a wussbag. You will NOT get laid.

Ever since I became a heartless asshole, I've gotten so much pussy. I hate the fact that it has to be this way, but it's worked for me.

16 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-06 20:34 ID:wC90Alm4

>>14

>I think the best would be to cancel the whole thing, or not go yourself, and then arrange a meeting with her where you'll ask her to leave the other guy and go out with you. But of course, being the person you are, this won't happen, and you've just earned yourself a few more weeks/months of melodrama.

You surmised correctly. I can't exactly cancel, this has been in the plans for a while, and I don't mean just with her. I'm going with my friends, and it would look suspicious if I just decided not to go at the last minute.

To be honest, I don't really feel too awful about what just happened. But I am starting to sense that despite what I feel for this girl, I'm just wasting my time and emotions. I kinda wish I wasn't such good friends with her so I could just ignore her long enough to get her out of my system.

So tonight, I'll just keep some emotional distance away from her, and have some fun with my other friends. Imbibing alcohol sounds like a good plan as well. Talking about this with her can wait until later.

17 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-06 20:53 ID:ISWJEnd4

>it would look suspicious if I just decided not to go at the last minute.

You misunderstood me. It's precisely because it's suspicious that you should do it. If it meant nothing, or could be interpreted ans not meaning much, then it would not be worth it. If you don't go, she will get the message that you are pissed off.

18 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-06 21:35 ID:wpMgEeLp

And like I said, I have an obligation to my other friends to show up. I can't duck out on them.

I think I understand where you're coming from, though. Sending a strong message like not showing up at the last minute would speed things up and force me to come out with my feelings for her. Or something like that.

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

19 Name: Otakun : 2008-12-06 21:54 ID:ivEzoutV

Sheesh, can't you act selfishly just once? If they're your friends they'd understand

20 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-06 22:01 ID:wpMgEeLp

It's not in my nature to be selfish -_-. Look, it's been a while since we've all been able to get together like this, and I'm not missing out on this fight. Besides, I wanna get drunk tonight, and I'll need a designated driver.

Isn't there a compromise here somewhere? I wanna be able to be with my friends while still getting my message to this girl.

21 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-06 23:00 ID:ISWJEnd4

>>18

>Correct me if I'm mistaken.

You are entirely correct. Your friends stuff is a convenient excuse. Just call them to let them know you won't come, saying you're not fit or giving more detains, as per your judgment. Just don't use your friends as a convenient cover. But on the other hand, that would be typical of your behavior. There will always be good reasons for you not to do the uncomfortable but required actions

22 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-06 23:22 ID:wpMgEeLp

It was probably a bad idea to bring my laptop with me to study in this coffee shop I'm in, because it's proven itself to be a distraction.

I wouldn't be able to study anyways, because she's texting me about tonight. No mention of the hows and whys of what's happened between her and the boyfriend, and I don't really feel like bringing it up or getting mad at her, or even just continuing to be attracted to her. Feeling like this for her again is just too much frustration.

Now something has come up, and I have the opportunity to change my plans somehow so I'll be able to be with the rest of my friends, but her and her boyfriend won't be able to come (namely, because her boyfriend wouldn't be able to watch his football game). It's not quite the same as explicitly not being able to join them in my original plans, but I'm taking it into serious consideration.

23 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-07 08:50 ID:wC90Alm4

As fate would have it, I ended up at her place at the end of my night. My cousin wanted to score some pot from an acquaintance of hers, and we ended up in her apartment. The newly reinstated boyfriend was there. I don't have anything personal against him, actually. He really is pretty quiet.

My cousin and him went outside to smoke, which left me and her inside. I asked her why she took him back. She said she was lonely. I start to question her some more; why go through all this, even after how he treated you the last time? Why go through so much trouble for him? I left her on the verge of tears. I stop and try not to lose my cool. I almost apologize, but she stops me and tells me there's no need to.

She says she's aware of what she's doing to herself, but she's doing it anyway. Lonely people do weird things. But she's more hesitant this time around keeping some emotional distance from him, from what I could tell from her tone. We talk some more about her relationship. I never bring up our own. Towards the end, I told her I don't want to see her hurt, and to be careful. She thanks me for caring and sits close to me, just there lying down next to each other on the couch until we heard the door open, and we sat a little further apart. It sounds so benign, but it was all I wanted from her at that moment. We genuinely love each other; it's just not the kind of love I was looking for.

And I say "was," because I've decided not to feel that way about her anymore. I can understand why she's doing what she's doing, since I put myself through the same kind of frustration because of my feelings for her. It's what triggered my epiphany tonight; I don't have to put up with frustration the way she is, I can just ignore it and move on. It's just not worth it, and there'll always be other girls. But she's the closest any person has been in my life so far, male or female, girlfriend or not. Maybe something will change in the future for me and her, but I won't feel bad if my relationship with her stays the same, because our friendship is something I cherish very much, and I know she feels the same way too.

I'm sorry it didn't turn out the way you guys wanted it. I wanna thank you anyway for your support, and for helping to lead me towards the closure I've been looking for. I don't have it quite yet, but I'm very close to it.

24 Name: Otakun : 2008-12-07 14:34 ID:ivEzoutV

So you're really giving up huh? Thats a shame... I really think you're still acting too nicely here. I can't really think of something inspirational because I've been up all night studying and not studying, but I'm just gonna come clean.

I'm really disappointed feitizero, you were so hesitant that your small time frame just slipped by. Forget the future... Work in the present. If you want to move on go right ahead, but in my opinion its still not too late to win her over. Her "boyfriend" if you want to call him that is just an obstacle in both of your happinesses. I know I don't really know this guy, but from what I heard from you... she's heading down a terrible path now, especially with this guy. I know this is agaisnt my character to say, but stop being so nice! You're missing out on the remaining time that you've got with her. Don't do just leave the situation full of regrets!

25 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-07 16:54 ID:wC90Alm4

>>24

>Her "boyfriend" if you want to call him that is just an obstacle in both of your happinesses.

He's only an obstacle if I see him as one. I can't make this girl my only chance at being happy. That would be unhealthy. And it would be dishonest to see myself as her true chance to be happy, because she's got her own ideas about her happiness.

As for her heading down a "terrible path," I can't be the judge of that. It was quite the whirlwind romance for those two, and things moved quickly and culminated in him telling her he wants nothing to do with her anymore after everything they apparently shared, and subsequently, him asking her to take him back, but to take things slower. And with the way she still feels about him, it's an enticing second chance.

>in my opinion its still not too late to win her over.

There's no way that's happening now, regardless of what I want to do. She's smitten with the guy, as I mentioned above.

I know I'm being too passive in regards to her, but I just don't want to bother anymore. I have more important things in my life to worry about than unrequited love. Could my situation with her change in the future? Maybe, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it. I'll find my own happiness elsewhere instead.

26 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-13 03:12 ID:LwQVsqUt

Yeah, I told myself that I'm through with her, but it's kinda hard when she still hangs out with me when she's free, and needs me to be with her when she's down. Right now, she's down.

>she's heading down a terrible path now, especially with this guy.

It's funny that you should say that...

Well, it's not "terrible" in the truest sense of the word, but she is miserable.

I was at home earlier tonight when she calls me. She's sobbing, and I can barely understand what she's saying. She asks me to stay with her for a bit, and I start the drive to her place.

I get to her place, and it's dark, save for the glow from her laptop screen. She looks like she's been crying for a while. This would make it the second time in as many weeks that this has happened, and the second time I had to sit with her like this. She's quite the crier, but I'm the only friend she'll show herself to when she's sobbing her eyes out. She still likes her boyfriend, but he hasn't changed since the last time they broke up. And she's trying really hard to make it work, but he just doesn't see it the same way she does, I guess. They had a fight, and she's feeling torn about her feelings for him, and the fact that things just aren't going the way she wants them to. Her self-esteem is shot. I try to console her and boost her self-esteem and tell her it'll be ok, but it's not working. I settle for holding her tight as we lie down on her sofa.

At this point, a few things run through my head. The part of me that's her friend just wants her to be happy. The other part that's trying to forget about my feelings for her sees this as very inconvenient. And the other part that still wants her, well, still does.

But I don't say anything to her in that regard. She's got too much to think about.

She starts to feel a little better. I get her to joke, turn on the lights and the TV for a while.

Her boyfriend texts her. He's coming over. It's time for me to go. I ask her if she'll be ok, and she said she thinks so. I apologize for not being able to help. She tells me not to apologize. She hurries me out, and I oblige; I don't wanna be around this, good or bad.

I'm not here to ask for any specific advice. I still want to get over my attraction to her. Sometimes I wish she didn't rely on me so much. It would make it easier to forget about her.

Frustration is the word of the day.

27 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-13 05:03 ID:bKPKHkZV

>>26
You have two solutions:
-be there when she has a fight with her boyfriend, and plant seeds of discord. Shoot him down, show her his weaknesses and insecurity (of course, don't be too obvious, duh)

-NEVER BE THERE AGAIN while she's with the guy. Make her understand that you're okay being friends but you don't want to be the one picking her pieces back everytime some other asshole breaks her. Seriously dude, it's your sanity at stake here.

28 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-14 09:29 ID:LwQVsqUt

>>27
Or, do nothing as she finally decides that she's had enough and breaks up with the guy.

She called me from work yesterday. After I left her place 2 nights ago, her boyfriend never made it to her place. In a fit, she grabbed all of his shit, put it in a garbage bag, and drove over to his place to give it back to him and to break up. He wasn't at home.

He called her later and tried to apologize, saying that he fell asleep. That obviously contradicts the fact that his place was empty, and she pointed that out. He hung up in reply.

There's no crying this time, just anger. The whole lack of trust thing just really got to her. She told me that she's through with him for good, even though she still has feelings for him (which I really don't understand, considering all he's put her through).

She's complaining of her awful love life, and mused angrily of how her friend (i.e. me) is more willing to do things for her than her boyfriend.

(The example she used specifically was: on the night that event I just mentioned happened, I offered to get her some headache pills because she had a bad migraine and was out of them; she refused, though.)

Ouch. I thought it'd be obvious there. Maybe she noticed it, but didn't say anything. But I digress.

And now it's come full circle. It's the beginning of this thread all over again; same situation, same heart vs. mind cage fight. At this point, I almost don't care how it ends, but I just want to break this pattern before it repeats itself again.

29 Name: Otakun : 2008-12-14 11:13 ID:ivEzoutV

I'll still stick by what I said earlier, ask her out soon. Can't get to the ending if you don't do anything at all. I'm sure most of us would say the same. Just go for it, no excuses this time!

30 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-15 03:51 ID:bKPKHkZV

I'll tell you something I told many many people on these boards (and something I wish I had been told a few times before).

>>At this point, I almost don't care how it ends, but I just want to break this pattern before it repeats itself again.

Why don't you just tell her that?

31 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-15 09:58 ID:LwQVsqUt

I will confess, but not now. She's been wanting to spend some time with me because she's alone (she bought me dinner yesterday, something that almost never happens since she's usually broke, and she called me late tonight just to talk), but it's obvious she's still hurting, even though she's taking it better this time. She wants nothing to do with boys or sex or relationships.

So that's why I wanna wait, but I also don't want to wait too much. I was thinking sometime after Christmas, or maybe just before Christmas, when she returns from visiting her family over the weekend. I'm afraid of rushing things too soon after a breakup.

But this week, I'm not worrying about it. I'm gonna focus on just spending time with her.

32 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-15 14:58 ID:TLw8SrsF

I don't get this.
In my mind, it's simple. Act, decisively. Confess and hope she reciprocates (fine, put it off to christmas if you want) or never see her again. Never see her again, because if you do you will always end up being the emotional crutch and the support, and will always have to go through exactly what you are going through now.
It's hard, but that's the only way to break the circle.

33 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-15 16:06 ID:bKPKHkZV

>>31
Sure, you don't wanna be the rebound anyway.

But keep warm the picture in her mind that you are here for her. Maybe not as a friend like she thinks. It's the thing that made her break up in anger with her old boyfriend, so it somehow puts you under the spotlight.

34 Name: feitizero : 2008-12-17 17:56 ID:LwQVsqUt

>>33

Funny you should mention being the rebound.

Yesterday she mentioned a couple of anecdotes that indicate that a couple of other old boyfriends were trying to get the rebound. She mentioned being repulsed by that behavior, and she's starting to view herself as a girl incapable of having a good relationship.

I don't want to be that kind of guy. How do I tell her how I feel while at the same time, making sure I get the point across that I want to be more than a rebound to her?

35 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-17 18:19 ID:D5DlClGK

One day, as you are sitting down, say something along the lines of, "You're a great girl." Then sigh. SIgh heavily, deeply, for a long time. Then fidget and turn in your seat. Then start crying. Maybe then she'll get the hint.

36 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-19 04:28 ID:noI31P1x

Girls...girls like this, they tend to be great, interesting people, but they also tend to choose horrible people as partners. This isn't a coincidence, or that being an unbearable asshole is some sort of magic formula. They find assholes attractive, not because it's universal, but because they associate jerkiness with attractiveness or love. Abusive or neglectful father figures, or the first person they were in a relationship with was abusive or neglectful. It won't work because like Lorenz's imprinted ducks or Pavlov's salivating dog, they have the mental defect of associating abuse with love and affection. They don't know how to deal with kindness, and they don't associate it with love. No matter what, you will never win over this type of girl be being a good friend.

I know this because I have fallen for this type of girl before, and at different ages; a 17 year old one like this in high school, a 22 and 23 year old in college...and most recently, a 36 year old woman like this. They never change, they float through life on dozens of failed relationships which turn exploitative, abusive or neglectful, and never seem to see the cycle of destruction, because they're unconsciously programmed for failure.

I say, tell her what you need to say, expect the worst, (with the tiniest hope for the best), and move on (or forward).

37 Name: Secret Admirer : 2008-12-19 09:18 ID:Heaven

>>36

Listen to this. Knows what he's talking about.

38 Name: feitizero : 2009-01-01 09:03 ID:+soO0/yZ

It's late at night, and I'm still buzzed from tonight's festivities and I can't sleep. I figured I'd give an update, though it's not much.

My emotions are as fickle as hers. I've decided (again) not to say anything, and she's decided that even though they don't have a future as a couple that she'd stay with him until he moved out of state, which will happen soon. My decision was, obviously, influenced by hers. Perhaps >>36 is right about this girl, and I am starting to believe that I have no future with her beyond friendship. She's damaged goods. Several friends that see us, though, believe otherwise. They think that we'll end up together, but I'm not so optimistic. I'm sick of having my emotions pulled every which way. I've made it my resolution to move on and move away from this, but that's easier said than done.

39 Name: Secret Admirer : 2009-01-03 20:41 ID:WECsgXWv

>>36 also mentions that you should tell her your feelings as well.

I know it's been said multiple times throughout this thread, and multiple times you've considered it and put it off.
If you're honestly thinking of moving on, the least you could do is let yourself OUT and tell her how you feel.

People have told you to do this previously, and you've neglected to do so, so I doubt you'll listen to what I'm saying as well.
It's really disappointing, because it seems like you really do have a chance at this.

You say she complains about all these bad boyfriends, and notice how all of these relationships she's had have always come to shambles in one way or another; Don't you think you deserve a fair chance at being the one relationship that works out?
Sure, it sounds a bit selfish, but honestly, you seem like a really good guy, and you obviously care about her well-being. From the looks of it, you're her best shot right now at having a long-lasting working relationship, and that would work out for her AND you; You in more ways than one for your line of thinking since you'd finally be with her BUT also because she'd be with a man that genuinely cares for her in a manner a woman should deserve.

I apologize for the long post but seriously, you need to let your feelings out.

40 Name: Secret Admirer : 2009-01-03 22:39 ID:uwzED8IU

You can say that you know her and understand her best, and that you will treat her "right" where all her past relationships have been "wrong" but it won't do either of you any good. She is looking for someone to date, but it sounds like you want to take care of her. She's out there looking for someone to be with, someone that loves her and provides for her something. She may not know what that something is yet, but she's looking for it.

You talk about what you think she needs and how you feel so bad for her and her failed relationships. Do you want to be with her because you love her? Or do you want to be with her because you pity her? Because you believe yourself to genuinely be better than the rest of the guys she's been with? That you're selflessly giving yourself to her as a rock for her to ground her horrible, misguided life upon? You aren't really sure what you want anymore because you're delusional -- you're confusing pity for caring and sympathy for love.

She's out there discovering what she needs and figuring out what she really wants -- sure, it may be trial by error, but she's trying. You're fixated on one girl you think you love because you have convinced yourself you know so much more about her than she does, putting yourself upon a pedestal as if you were her knight in shining armor come to save her from the hell she blindly subjects herself to. At least she's out there subjecting herself to something real instead of deluding herself with theories and ideas and assumptions that selfless acts of caring and love are really what everyone needs.

Not telling her how you feel will leave you with unhandled emotional baggage. You will attempt to move on, slowly and painfully, haunted by the idea that you might have had a chance. You will never get over her. Ever.

Telling her how you feel now will put her in an awkward situation, and she'll probably make that very clear. Even then, it gives her a choice: does she stay with the boyfriend that was so bad to her in the past? Or does she move on to you, an unknown quantity promising her everything you think she wants. She may stay with the old one for security reasons or out of obligation or because she thinks you're being creepy. She may decide to move on and start seeing you.

If she does, I assure you I know what will happen. You will "love" her and "comfort" her, treating her like an injured child, trying to nurse her heart back to whatever standard you hold against her. You'll give and give and give to her, be it money or time or affection, all without expecting anything in return. You will either smother her with affection and force her to leave, or you will both go on thinking you're both happy this way, blind to the massive gap growing wider and wider between you every day. You'll be happy and carefree until something goes wrong, and then you'll see that neither of you really know each other or trust one another or know how the other thinks or feels. You will both argue and fight, desperately trying to build back a house of cards on shaky ground. You'll either figure out how to move on from there, or you'll leave each other, bitter after trying to place the blame on one thing or the other when the fact of the matter is neither of you are more or less at fault.

41 Name: Secret Admirer : 2009-01-03 22:39 ID:uwzED8IU

continuing from >>40, reached the comment limit ^^;

I know this is really dramatic but it's exactly what I'm dealing with. I don't know if I've fixed my relationship just yet, but it was built on a weak foundation and came to a grinding halt a month ago. I believe we've patched things up, but it isn't going to be easy from here. All I know is that I believed I was right to give and give and give to her without expecting anything in return, and she did the same. We realized that it's unhealthy and irresponsible to do that, and that neither of us really knew what we were doing with ourselves or each other anymore.

Instead of giving, we have to ask for things from each other. We have to be comfortable and trusting enough in the other to ask them to love us, to trust us, to comfort us. You say you're ready to give her everything OP, but you have proven that you aren't ready to ask for anything -- you can't even ask her to go out with you! If you aren't prepared to take on that kind of responsibility, then this relationship will never be what you hope it could be, despite all of your best efforts.

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