Kanji without ON reading (5)

1 OF 名無しさん@日本語勉強中 : 2008-06-17 00:25 ID:kwV22vyM

When I look up some kanji without ON reading like M, my dictionary properly states just its KUN reading (sara) and examples that use it. But WWWjdic and other online sites say it has an ON reading (bei in this case).
Where did this come from?
I don't see it used at all in examples like on: http://www.mahou.org/Kanji/3B2E/?example#example

Then I look it up on wiktionary,
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%9A%BF
and it gives yet another ON reading (myou). Which makes me even more confused.

2 OF 名無しさん@日本語勉強中 : 2008-06-17 01:56 ID:CBhdwS70

I am Japanese but I don't know ON reading of M.
So I feld for it.But I found only example M.

I think You seem to know about .
means container,redeptacle or vessel.(ONreading:KI KUNreading:UTUWA)
M means dish.(Reading:KIBEI noun phrase)
Type of same meaning KANJI combination.

I think KIBUTU don't used common in japanese.

If you look and read this kanji in japan.
Maybe you will see using examples M(china),Mipotteryj,aHMidishes for Japanese foodjetc.
Then you should read JIKIZARA,TOUKIZARA,WASHOKKIZARA.

3 OF 名無しさん@日本語勉強中 : 2008-06-17 02:44 ID:/I/06Swx

(Note that the explanations below are scholastically inaccurate.)

To be exact, there are a few variations in the system of ON reading: Go-on(), Kan-on(), To-on() and kanoyo-on(p).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C5%8D-on

In simple terms, Go-on is old ON which was imported from China or other contries in 5th century. Kan-on is of 7th century and To-on is of 12th century. p(idiomatic ON) is "Japanized" ON, or arranged ON to fit for modern Japanese in around 19-20th century.

In M's case,
Kun-yomi: sara
Go-on: myou, myau
Kan-on: mei
Kanyo-on: bei

Not all kanji has all of kun, Go, Kan, To and kanyo since some of those ON don't exist, or vanished and are not used today. The judgement of vanished or not vanished depends on editors of each dictionary. Japanese wiktionary listed Kun, Go, Kan and Kanyo for M. English wiktinary listed only Kun, Go and Kanyo. Maybe your ditionary considers all of them except Kun were vanished.

4 OF 名無しさん@日本語勉強中 : 2008-06-17 02:51 ID:CBhdwS70

Below My idea about ON reading "BEI".

Plate forms circle and flat at a guess.And it's colored white.
I think resemble sound of "BEI" and "HEI".

KANJI is satisfied above of terms is ""and"".

is used about _iShintojoriginally.
"circle"+"flat"=coin. was meaned money after. ex:ipapermoney)ݕicoin money)

means rice cake.Do you know it?
݁iKUNreading:MOTI ONreading:HEI)is white,flat and circle.
In this connection,MOTI made from rice.rice is āiONreading:BEI KUNreading:KOME)
Icome to think of it,rice also white and flat and circle.

This is my arbitrary idea.
Maybe,sound of HEI or BEI meaned "white""circle""flat"things at early Japanese.

Lastly,I apologize to you for my poor English.

5 OF 名無しさん@日本語勉強中 : 2008-06-18 20:38 ID:Heaven

>>2
Thanks, those are nice examples.
It took me a while to find M in an online dictionary. It's not in a lot even though it produces a lot of hits on google. I found it on yahoo's dictionary though.

>>3
Thanks for clearing it up. It seems that my dictionary is very liberal about this and doesn't give, what seem to be, vanished/archaic readings for a lot of things. I think this is because it's specifically for learning as opposed to a reference so they don't want to bother you with it.

>>4
This falls under etymology right? I think etymology is really interesting.

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