Sexually molested by older brother. Should I tell to my family? (176)

1 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-02 20:00 ID:F8NYbquD

I’m 28 now but when I was 9 my older brother started touching me while I was sleeping, masturbated me and rub his penis in my ass.

I suddenly changed personality, from an extroverted kid to a very introverted one, always in my room, no friends, almost all my puberty depressed, I tried to never mention his name again, just call him "the other one" (I have another brother) and trying to keep always an eye on my little sister, worry about he will try the same with her.

I don’t know if it was not obvious for my parents the change in personality and my strong reluctance to be in the same place with him, now I know these and other behaviors I had then, are clearly a sign of child sexual abuse, but my parents are catholic (we live in South America) and they had an excellent relation with their families, so, they would never thought in something like this.

My dad change, for him been a good brother is very important and he never understood why I start hating my older brother. Why always when he talked something about him, I did faces, and why I transformed in a crybaby loner.

My mom for the other side interpreted this as a behavior- adolescence issue and start overprotecting me even more. Cause I didn’t have a social life and was very quit she always put me like an example of discipline, academically and at home, and we - my mom and I- formed a strong relationship that all the others- included my dad and sister- feel alienated from it.

So, this maked even greater the distance between my father and me. For him, I just was a bitter and loner guy that hated my siblings and didn’t have friends.

When I start university I meet many people very similar to me and I try to take command of my life and not be sad anymore. I made friends for the first time, and had a pretty busy social and cultural life in the visual arts faculty.

But also I started my sexual life, and I actually had from the beginning some quite unhealthy patterns: anonymous sex in public places, sex with guys I just met in gay bars, sex in gay saunas, and never getting out of the closed. So I never had an emotional evolved relationship with a partner and I was playing with my life having unsafe sex on this AIDS age. I’m negative but I aware that my unhealthy sexuality had a big deal to do with the sexual abuse I had.

25 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-08 18:31 ID:+WLruvm4

>>23

he was 16 then

26 Post deleted by moderator.

27 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-09 08:57 ID:MUk4vuri

>>25
Ah, okay. If he was like, at most 12 I might've said maybe he didn't know what he was doing was wrong, but 16...

28 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-09 09:07 ID:MUk4vuri

...Also, I only skimmed most of your first post before reading that. I had assumed you were female. Heh.

To answer your question though, I don't think you should tell your family. What good will it do to bring up stuff like that now?

However, I think it is necessary to get away from him. If you're in south America and he's in the US, that's a good thing. What you have to do is figure out how to put it behind you and move on

Sure, it may have been his fault that you turned out this way, but now that you know and have a will of your own you can change, right?

29 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-09 10:39 ID:bJODNUvZ

What is it like living in south america?

30 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-09 14:53 ID:Heaven

I think you should let your family know. they failed as a family to you and instead of providing you with a safe house they abused you, don't take the burden to yourself any more, tell the truth and get rid of them if necessary.

31 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-09 19:12 ID:+WLruvm4

>>28

the thing is:
1- my dad always try to make me get a long with him and he is always (all the days, at least one hour) talking of him WITH ME (this is his weird way to make me like him)

2- i dont want to tell my family (this means mom and dad), but...

3- i want my dad to stop talking of him with me, im doing pretty good right now, i try to have a peaceful life and i want a nice relationship with my parents, BUT I DONT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT HIM ANYMORE, thats all i ask

4- and of course my dad not knowing the sexual abuse context just think im a little spoiled boy who is envy of his elder brother for whatever reason he thinks

5- actually he knows im very resentful that he paid him a bachelor and a master in new england, even if he was the worst student of the family (he didnt go to clases for 2 full years, while my parents were paying his full tuition, and he always got the lower grades of all my siblings), this was his "punishment", even my other brother get a master in michigan and my sister did a international high school baccalaureate also in the states, at least this guys are really brilliant and they truely deserved, i got the better grades (after my sister)but my dad just "helped" me to went to the state public college (they are even worst here in latin america), i know one ohe reasons my dad was or is like that with me is because he thinks my mom gives me TOO much attention, so this is his way to balance things, and dad that asomehoe are jealouse of there sons are generally this cruel and inmature.

32 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-09 19:34 ID:+WLruvm4

continuing from the last post, i always had to add to the burden of the sexual abuse by my elder brother, the very negative image my own dad have of me.

i dont care anymore about that, he is too old to change.

but im sure now that im totally entitled to "clean" myself of my dad suppositions, im not hate my brother 'cause i want, i was not bitter 'cause i wanted.

and i really want to heard my dad say, sorry for not protect u, sorry for think you were a bad brother and bad son, sorry for treat you like a "second class" between my children.

or at least he'll say he dont believe me or it was my fault, but i'll know that deep inside him he will start seing my elder brother as the garbage he really is.

one last comment, is weid how my mom never trust him, even when he divorce his first wife, she said must be something he did to her, my dad of course blame the girl.

33 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-09 23:40 ID:UEJ13wMT

beyond my abilities and experience, I wouldn't know what to do. It is great that you have some thoughts organized about this.

34 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-10 11:24 ID:HFWpZ94n

Can I molest you, >>1 ?

35 Name: adiosmommy_c_u_in_a_better_world : 2007-05-11 01:21 ID:+WLruvm4

im prepare to tell my dad tis saturday, maybe this will be the last day i will see them.....i will miss my mom so much, she will never understand why i go away without any explanation to her, i think is better if she hates me than hurt her telling the truth about the piece of shit of my brother! wow is incredible how someone thst is nothing for u, can affect ur life always and only in a bad way, possibly i was a german gestapo guy and he was a jew, and im paying now for what i did to hin in my last life!:(

36 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-11 10:24 ID:bJODNUvZ

>>35

Work on your English and then move to the United States, there is a state that you would feel home in it's called "San francisco".

37 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-11 17:40 ID:FiFR5YaM

>>35 Suicide, faggot.

38 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-11 21:46 ID:MG/hzSi/

@op

same happened to me, except it was my stepdad who did it, when i was 11. now i'm a 25 year old virgin loser nerd no job no nothing. i'll probably make a thread for myself here, soon.

and good luck telling your dad.

39 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-11 23:51 ID:bJODNUvZ

>>37

Shut up stupid asshole.

40 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-12 05:19 ID:UEJ13wMT

>>39 seconded
please inform how it turned out :/

41 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-12 07:32 ID:6pH/GnAn

>>35 Suicide. What else is there to do?

42 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-13 09:59 ID:MUk4vuri

>>37,>>41

you people really shouldn't joke like that on this board...

43 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-13 15:02 ID:cvgUceEf

>>42
>>41 here. It's not a joke.

44 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-14 22:16 ID:+WLruvm4

>>41
hope the karma dont make you do what you encourage others to do... well I can imagine you have such a perfect life that you dont have to worry about it! nice people like u nevr will want to kill themselves

45 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-15 00:33 ID:YKbYFHF4

There is no karma. And my life sucks, too. The next step down would be becoming gay and fucking >>44 in his bubble butt.

46 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-15 15:27 ID:+WLruvm4

>>45
thanks for the compliment.

47 Name: Anonymous : 2007-05-16 19:18 ID:b0l26Ife

Good luck, OP. Please fill us in on the details, after the meeting. =(

48 Post deleted by moderator.

49 Name: TK : 2007-12-31 17:34 ID:s64MoQD0

Being gay has nothing to do with being sexually abused as a child by a member of the same gender, just like being straight has nothing to do with being sexually abused by a member of the opposite gender. To suggest otherwise is to link heterosexuality to sex abused - that women who are straight but were abused by men owe their sexual orientation to the abuse. It does NOT work like that. It is a sad fact that many thousands of people in our society have been the victims of sex abuse, both male and female, and the vast majority have grown up heterosexual... just like people who have never been sexually abused. Now, I am not suggesting that the abuse you suffered had 'zero' effect on your feelings of sexual identity; clearly they have. But to BLAME the abuse for "making" you gay is extremely troubling. This suggests to the average individual that being gay is an "affliction" that can be "caused" - and this is NOT the case. The same could be said for all sexual orientation. Likewise, one can not "change" their sexual orientation - and there is over a hundred years of detailed psychological data to back that up. Check out my link for some factual information about Sexual Orientation. I feel bad that you were abused, but I am shocked and saddened that you would turn around and 'blame' the abuse for your orientation. I've never been abused and I've known that I liked other guys in a more-than-platonic way since I was a young child, long before puberty and before I knew what sex was. I hope you find a more productive and less socially damaging way of dealing with your situation and personal pain.

50 Name: Anonymous : 2008-01-03 15:18 ID:9LQ1FqH8

So what came out of it?

51 Name: Anonymous : 2008-01-03 18:26 ID:+X66n/MD

I know what you are going through also.
I was also molested when I was younger by a neighbor. I remember he use to brag about it to his sister which he had sex with. I didn't tell my mother until 5 or 6 years after it happened but that was because I had to (I was going into a mental institution at the time for a suicide attempt and it was one of the issues brought up). I also realized recently that my biological father also might have done the same to me. Now, I am 20 and going to college. I'm not gay but have only had sex with 2 women. I have met a lot of other people who have also been molested. One has told me that the others (people who have not been molested) will never understand us. I just don't know and just want to die. Everyday I just want to die. Sorry. To answer your question, I don't think telling anyone will solve anything now. It's better if you learn to live with it and try to make another friend who has had the same thing happen. If you can find a person like that, they will be able to listen to you better then your parents. I hope you can find them. Don't give up on life like me. Eventually I will probably kill myself, I just need to get the strength.

52 Name: Anonymous : 2008-01-04 00:55 ID:AG5ymMBD

Half a year later, would have been nice to hear what happened, oh well.

53 Name: Anonymous : 2008-01-08 04:05 ID:JaBlrQth

wow. i feel really sorry for all the people on this forum who have been molested... i doubt you will ever get over it but i hope that you will still be able to live with it because the world is truely a wonderful place if you can overcome adversity. many of us have to live with some sort of childhood afliction that destroys our confidence... but its not too late to be proactive and change yourself and your surroundings. if you let these things get to you then youve lost the battle. show the molesters that you have a brain and that you have grown up to become better people than them.

54 Name: feet : 2008-01-09 19:13 ID:fGnOuoLR

omg...I'm really sorry OP and also to >>51 and anyone else out there.
I was brought up in a culture where it was ok to abuse kids but I never accepted it. I've been told I'm just disobedient and bratty. And that when I grow up I'll understand but I never did. It disgusts me. I don't believe in this cultural relativism crap
because it fucked me up. It's so not ok to take advantage of kids for your pleasure. And it isn't considered 'abuse' here either because adults seem to have divine rights to kids or something shit like that. I have told no one and I never will because It's gross and no one will believe me or they will blame me for it.
My gawd...I feel like such a pathetic loser because I'm not the only one that went through it and I got it lucky compared to most people..but I can barely function. I can't trust men...or women. Because women do it too. I hate my family and relatives so much. Sick fucks. Anyway I don't have a choice but to move on
and forget anything ever happened.

I was also assaulted in college but I actually reported that except no one believed me, I got called a liar by everyone.
I hate him for assaulting me and then acting cute and innocent.
Developing the courage to speak out and then being called a LIAR is worse than being called a whore. I ended up fucking my exams up and confining myself at home. I've had insomnia and when I do
fall asleep I have nightmares. I have flashbacks but I'm getting better now.
If no one believes that college stuff, then there is no way I'll ever talk about the sexual abuse during my childhood.
I do admire people who have the courage and bravery to speak up.
Don't give up on life!!

55 Name: Anonymous : 2008-01-10 19:57 ID:Heaven

> I do admire people who have the courage and bravery to speak up.

Seconded.

56 Name: Anonymous : 2008-02-16 04:34 ID:Heaven

>>54
Where do you live?

>>55
Thirded.

57 Name: Man in UK : 2008-06-15 21:52 ID:6Mbj38NA

I'm sorry to hear about your situation that you experienced - It also happened to me - My elder brother is 6 years older than me, he began molesting me when I was only 6 or 7 years old - it went on (most nights) until I was in my early teens making him almost 20. It stopped - I got over it and could have lived with it in silence for the rest of my days. I'm now 45, and a few years back discovered (through talking to my brother's ex girlfriend) that he also had molested her two children) Obviously I could no longer remain in silence - I had to report it to the Police and Social Services - not in an act of revenge, anger and disgust at what he had done and got away with - but in order to protect even more children (especially my niece and 2 nephews my brother no has) falling victim to my brother's sick mind.
After many interviews and discussions the police couldn't guarantee a 'guilty' conviction after this length of time and they didn't want him to be labelled 'inocent' so the case never went to court. Social services were happy that my older brother's children were safe with him and no action was taken there, even though my neice had already moved out to live with one of my sisters.
My niece and nephews hate me thinking that I (and the 2 girls) made it all up, and even my younger brother and his wife think I am lying. I can live with that - what I couldn't live with is if I had done nothing knowing that I was abused, learning that he went on to abuse 2 other children and some harm had come to his own children.
Please, please, if this has happened (or happening) to someone else reading this report it as soon as you can - because he won't stop with just abusing you, he'll move on to others, and others, and others - until stopped.

58 Name: Anonymous : 2008-06-15 22:21 ID:l/+4tWZ3

>>1

Kill the bastard. There is no rehab for sex offenders. Gotta put them down. It is the only way to cure them.

59 Name: Anonymous : 2008-06-16 00:28 ID:xo7R00T/

I don't know if you should tell your family...that's up to you. But you do need to find someone, a friend is best, to talk to about it. I have been sexually abused twice, and I can tell you letting it out to someone helps. They may not fully understand, but...

60 Name: a : 2009-03-11 16:57 ID:DPiFejzD

has anyone ever regained their confidence and lived a "not-so-messed up life" after having that incident in the past, older brother molesting you?

61 Name: H-town Stomper : 2009-03-12 01:56 ID:6dL84qEz

I aint never been sexually abused, but I have been phsyically abused. My mom went out with this man for 3 years. He didnt like me very much. Whenever my mom wasnt arount, I would get the shit beat out of me. Eventually, my mom broke up with him. When he finally left, it took me changing everything about me to be able to not be crazy. I used to be a good person, but then I started doing things I promised I wouldnt do since leaving Hopewell. Lately though, I have learned a lot more about being a better person. You should become stronger, realize that it isnt your fault, and strive towards whatever will make it better.

62 Name: Anonymous : 2009-03-12 14:11 ID:gGfOnOAY

I'd give him a good slap.

63 Name: me : 2009-03-17 00:03 ID:6yW+Q7IA

when i was 4 my half brother came to live with us.i didnt think he was doing anything wrong until my dad came in to tuck me in gave me a kiss on my forehead and walked out of the room.my brother touched me for a few minutes and my dad walked in on him doing so.my dad was so angry i thought he was upset at me.my mom freaked out.her first born touching her baby at the time.my parents sent me to counciling for a few months and we just went on about our lives.i never talked about it even when i would go visit my siblings i put it to the back of my mind.its not something you want to remember.when i was 16 i went to visit my siblings for spring break.despite what happened i was always closest to my brother.i was always tomboyish.well this spring break i was only hanging out with my sister for a change.the first night my sister her boyfriend and i took ecstacy pills..me and my sister had a heart to heart for the very first time in my existance only to find out it wasnt just me my brother molested or did that kind of stuff to.he also did it to my sister and my girl cousins too.im 22 now but i still think and remember every time he would do things to me and it sounds bad but in a way i felt relieved to know i wasnt the only one.come to find out my brother and sisters dads brother was molesting my brother when he was younger.it hasnt been until recently that its on my mind constantly.i dont understand why i spent so many years pretending it didnt happen but i dont know who to talk to about it.

64 Name: Anonymous : 2009-03-17 11:02 ID:caIXMoE9

I had an older brother that passed away when I teenager. I loved him a lot and he was a great older brother to me so I can't even begin to understand what you've been going through...
I think your parents (even if they are shocked and horrified) should know. It won't be easy but Be strong and Be brave.
I know we seem like random voices online but I know there is a lot of people here who support you.

65 Name: Anonymous : 2009-04-04 13:21 ID:ghF18Dmx

tell your father about it
tell your father to not mention it to your mother
just leave immediately

and hope op can report soon

66 Name: Anonymous : 2009-06-06 07:34 ID:UCSOIv22

ok. Honey you need to tell your parents if you havent already. i a 21 year old female who was molested by her brother on several occasions at about the same age you were. A couple of years ago the memories of everything came crashing back to me. My mother and I happened to be watching a movie about this cituation and I ended up spilling everything to her. She is a very insightful woman and told me she didnt know that had happened but there was something weird between us two. He lives in the same town and comes to visit my parents and I every week. Sometimes several times a week. So I have to put on a fake face and pretend like I love him in front of my dad. But anyway...long story short. I felt better that my mom knew about it. My close friends all know. It feels good not to feel alone in the world. Im not gonna lie to you. It still hurts. But I think you need to tell your parents why you arent talking to them or visiting. Do you want them to die thinking their son hated them? Becuz thats what they think. They think its them deep down. In my case. It still hurts everyday. I feel so dirty..and wish I could turn back the clock and stop it from happening. then maybe i would have a chance at being normal. But I cant. I know I need to forgive him at some point in my life. I have tried and tried but i just cant bring myself to do. I think to TRUELY MOVE ON YOU AND i BOTH NEED TO FIND IT IN US SOMEWHERE TO FORGIVE THEM....and then finally move on with our lives. Because no matter what we do it will always be nagging on us. Just be the bigger man and forgive him. Not just for show though. You need to find the power within yourself to do it. Then accomplish it and move on. I truely wish you good luck. I hope my story has somehow helped you in someway. Good Luck!

67 Name: Anonymous : 2009-06-06 18:32 ID:TV61qapK

>to TRUELY MOVE ON YOU AND i BOTH NEED TO FIND IT IN US SOMEWHERE TO FORGIVE THEM

That sounds hard XD!

68 Name: therapist : 2009-08-06 23:15 ID:o3LXfbFy

You should talk to your family about it. If your brother was molesting you, there is a very strong chance that he himself was sexually abused in some way by other children or by adults. You both need professional help.

69 Name: Anonymous : 2009-08-07 03:04 ID:Heaven

Stop bumping this

70 Name: Feel bad : 2009-12-23 04:48 ID:1hm77oRc

i molested my yunger bro 4 a wile. i hve always felt horrible and wil always for ruining his life

71 Name: Anonymous : 2009-12-29 17:53 ID:Heaven

>>70
well you should feel bad
have you considered telling him that you feel bad
ignoring the issue is kind of like running down a pedestrian with your car and driving away. intentions and regrets are meaningless if you just leave him to die.

72 Name: Anonymous : 2010-01-03 07:34 ID:c9+Rc/KN

so what happened in the end? did u tell your family or at least have any steps been taken to rectify the situation.

to every1 else is there a story where the situation gets resolved, where the family talks to the offending sibling in a confrontation. basicly i am looking for a happy ending in this kind of situation

73 Name: Anonymous : 2010-03-03 17:49 ID:tGryoK/c

You need to let the authorities know. If there's a child molester living with you, you need to report them. Doesn't matter what happens next, it is the right thing to do and it is the law.

74 Name: Anonymous : 2010-06-06 14:32 ID:0+N/xWYw

I was molestered when I was 5 at school by other students my age but I gues they didn't really know what they were doing and neither did I but I know it wasn't "normal" as we alway did it in secret.. Thankfully my family never molestered me but my dad did beat me badly and even tried to kill me a couple of times until I left the family house when I was 21.
The sad thing is that when I was around 8 I started to molest my two younger brothers and sister who were younger than me..
This went on until I was 21 (my sister was 13) and now I feel sick to the stomach about what happened! I have tried to discuss it with them and one of my brothers who is 4 years younger than me has forgiven me which means so much! My other brother who is 6 years younger than me won't have anyting to do with me and my sister said she will never speak to me again.
I feel so bad that words can't discribe and even after speaking with my mum about it and having therapy I don't think I will ever get over it as I think about every day and feel extremely depressed!!
I believe I'm a good person and really care about others and to think this happened the shame and guilt I feel will never make up to my sibblings what happened and I wish I could do something for them, not for me but just so they know I do care about them a lot and wish it never had happened..
In a lot of ways I think if I just committed suicide it might help in some way as I'll never get over this and I don't think they ever will!

75 Name: Anonymous : 2010-06-10 21:04 ID:vOXuoink

>>74
A suicide is a cowards way out. If you really do care like you say, then a life time of redemption shouldn't be to hard. You would be abnormal if you got over it. Somethings in life stay with you forever.

76 Name: Anonymous : 2010-06-16 06:18 ID:7i9Lsi0g

Didn't read much, but I read suicide somewhere. If don't care to use what life you have for yourself, then dedicate it to helping others. Live to love, you know. Maybe then you'll feel better enough to forgive yourself.

77 Name: Anonymous : 2010-07-27 06:30 ID:b/MF9ypK

I am a mother of a five year old little girl,l recently I have found out that she has been molested by her much older brother (my step son). She had made a comment about the absuse to myself while we were having ice cream, I was in shock!!! To think that this was happening to my sweet little girl and I had no idea. I asked my daughter why she did not tell me and she said because it was a "secret" and that she would be in trouble. I brought her to the hospital to be examined and it was worse than I thought. Her brother was charged with sexual abuse on a minor and was taken from our home and placed in foster care. I am devastated, my heart is broken for my little girl. Will she get through this, will we get through this?? What makes this situation more difficult is that this was my husbands son and he is torn, I can never trust this person again to be around my daughter. How do we get through this???

78 Name: Anonymous : 2010-09-24 23:24 ID:JNUcRDSg

>>77
Try not to make a big deal out of it. That's all you can do. Else you're just going to induce extra shame. And shame won't make her hymen grow back.

79 Name: riseabove : 2010-09-26 22:11 ID:MXoJb2xi

Sexual abuse CHANGES your brain chemistry.
Sexual pleasure burns "pleasure" pathways (despite the fact that it was forced, no matter the age)when one feels aroused. Those pathways determine what gives you sexual pleasure from that moment on. You cannot change the fact that shame, humiliation and/or domination now feels good (this is biology, NOT judgement). Sexual "deviance" is not a choice; it is an extension of abuse.
I don't know what to say to the author or to the mother of the five year old above. I can only say that divulging my "secret" at the age of 25 was not really a choice. If I had said something at 12 or 15 or 18 or 21 maybe things would have been different. So, to the mother, I can only say that you did something right. Your daughter felt safe enough to tell you and you protected her. I think your daughter will be okay, and that your actions may have prevented her a lifetime of suffering. To the author: Letting something like this fester within you can cause you much more distress than you already have experienced. SAY SOMETHING. You cannot move on or mature emotionally (or socially) until you acknowledge that you experienced something very terrifying, strange and something that made you different. Feeling alone and different leads to isolating behavior. Spending too much time alone, just thinking and suffering, all the while wishing to be normal, is not a life. It is an existence. Disfunction leads to sibling abuse. Your parents are not innocent, do not protect them. This is your life, and you are responsible for it. You are responsible for making yourself healthy and emotionally sound and stable.Even if that means risking everything.

80 Name: Anonymous : 2010-09-27 00:43 ID:73eb1rTD

>>79

[citation needed]

But seriously, where did you come up with that crap?

81 Name: Anonymous : 2010-09-27 23:06 ID:CjMux6ub

>>80
Personal experience, obviously.

82 Name: Anonymous : 2010-09-29 19:03 ID:oHSMQKUb

>>77
Make sure she knows that it's not her fault, it was her stepbrother's.

83 Name: Anonymous : 2010-10-02 01:03 ID:Heaven

>>79

>shame won't make her hymen grow back.

That made me laugh.

84 Name: Anonymous : 2011-01-13 02:59 ID:KASihrEV

Stop bumping this thread everyones obviously lying about being molested. its feeding them SO STOP BUMPING IT!

85 Name: Anonymous : 2011-01-13 08:47 ID:pWcgEjoB

>>84

lol what got up your ass? this board is near dead, nothing wrong with continued conversation, some of this shit might even help someone.

86 Name: Anonymous : 2011-01-13 08:48 ID:Heaven

plus you're the one who bumped the thread after two months lool

87 Name: Anonymouse : 2011-02-03 23:54 ID:X7la47/i

Reading through all of these I have seen things mostly from the victim's point of view, which is very important. I would like to give another spin on this though, my point of view.
I am not a victim of sexual child abuse, nor am I close to one. However, my Dad has been convicted with sexual child abuse to my ex-Best friend;s elder brother...
I can't say what he did was not wrong but... I love my Dad. He's a wonderful person with a huge and helpful heart. My Mum's East German and was brought up quite badly, when she and my Dad married my elder half-brother from my Mum was 6. My brother is severely autistic and very temper-mental. He's now 22 and very tall and strong. He often has temper tantrums and the only one who can really calm him down is my Dad, usually through a shouting much. Other than my brother, we were a pretty ordinary family, with supportive and loving Mum (who works 5 nights a week as a Nurse), a kind, fun-loving, funny Dad and me. About a year ago, halfway through my GCSE year 11 the police suddenly came to my house and took my Dad away. I was still at school when this happened and afterwards a social worker (the nosy useless parkers) came to my school called me out in the middle of a a lesson and started questioning me about my family life, asking about my Dad. Of course my Dad has never touched any of us before, which is why it was such a shock. I broke down crying and left school early. After that my life became pretty f**ked up, excuse my language.

88 Name: Anonie : 2011-02-04 00:12 ID:X7la47/i

I have started up a thread going in more detail on this comment, although it was originally meant for here. It's called 'The other side to sexual abuse, there is one'.
I was just trying to give some perspective by showing my experiences. Not that that justifies sex offenders actions or anything...just have a look if you're interested, OK?
Best of luck and love,
Anonie (Anonymous gets pretty boring plus you can't tell who's who) xxx

89 Name: Mazo : 2011-02-20 20:50 ID:Z5LOCFvy

C i am similar to how your elder brother was...it does not mean that he is a fake guy or pretending all the time...some people love their siblings the way they would love their gfs or bfs but that does not mean he is an asshole or a crook, who is useless and worthless. my sisters got over with it i spoke with them i even asked for forgiveness and they did later on in their life. Its a part of life, just think of it as he loved me and still does i am attractive for him

90 Name: RISE above the things you cant change : 2011-05-31 17:48 ID:1f+ivRbZ

It started when I was about 4 years old. My brother told me this 'penis' was from this store similar to spencers, and it was an austin powers brand. they had all types of colors. pink blue green. He tried making it sound appealing to me. I doubted his clever odd lies, so I said '"wheres the blue one?" , but he insisted he only 'bought' the pink one. Obviously you know this wasnt a fake strap on. He then told me that the juice was healthy. 'you want to swallow the juice because it is better for your health' as I believed him, thats what I did. For years I was on my knees all the time giving him oral. I remember gagging. just fucked up shit. My little self was on my knees for this bastard who was a role model to me. I just wanted acceptance, being the only girl and the youngest by 7 years.I was about 10 when I finally found the courage to not engage and give into any sexual or abnormal behavior any longer. Those 6 years left me scarred. He is protective of me towards other guys still to this day. Sick fuck. When he hurt me more than those random guys I'd ever have a fling with. He ruined my innocence. It doesnt help when 4 other family members have also molested me. but he hurt me the most. Being bullied throughout school doesnt help either. If my best friends only knew why I really am still abstinent at 18. I feel ive been taken advantage of all my life that I fear giving up all I feel that I have left. Ive attempted suicide twice. hospitalized once. I was in silence all these years . I've coped the only ways I knew how. Now here I am, stuck. I can't seem to decide if I want to tell my mom and ruin his life. I don't want to ruin his life. I know he hurt me but I cant risk anything like that. but my depression is severe. As it always has been, before I was in pre school. Should I continue to suffer in silence. I do not know. I dont want to tear apart my family tthat is already torn apart. :l. Make sure, if youve been abused, to atleast tell one person. It helps so much. I wish you all the best.

91 Name: SHY : 2011-06-01 16:27 ID:YBNf3kKy

i am 35 years old , my all life i have been inside a shell afraid , dirty and ashame. I was molasted from my older brother when i was 10 , and i alwasys have put a fake face , pretend to love him like nothing had ever happen . But in reality , he has ruined my life , i am emotionally destroyed . I really want to tell my parents for many reason , and i know i will will better . i need to tell , i hate pretending we are the perfect family when in reality its not....I HATE HIM FOR DOING THIS TO ME.....

92 Name: Anonymous : 2011-06-02 17:13 ID:3VqnZWOR

>>84
You'd be amazed what kinds of people wind up on 4-ch.
So, once you start thinking with your brain and not your dick, try actually <b>reading the thread.</b>

93 Name: Anysia : 2011-07-30 18:53 ID:ZpkuZaMU

I hope its four years later that you have told and told again. Not only for your sake but for your sister (it might have happened to her with all your careful watching), and your mother (who definitely if not knew suspected) we do know our children either near or far. Communication will also help you forgive yourself because you keep taking in all the responsibility when in fact you were a victim of someone who chose the selfishness of his lust upon a defenseless little person. Don't go away. Make sure your brother's wife knows so she can police him.

94 Name: Anysia : 2011-07-30 18:54 ID:ZpkuZaMU

I hope its four years later that you have told and told again. Not only for your sake but for your sister (it might have happened to her with all your careful watching), and your mother (who definitely if not knew suspected) we do know our children either near or far. Communication will also help you forgive yourself because you keep taking in all the responsibility when in fact you were a victim of someone who chose the selfishness of his lust upon a defenseless little person. Don't go away. Make sure your brother's wife knows so she can police him.

95 Name: zoomba : 2011-08-03 13:40 ID:6yzmRh9P

What a surprise I'm not alone, I'm sure people suspected that I was molested, but I will never comfirm this. It is just to much shame and embarrasment, especially since I'am a male and was molested by males. I was molested multiple times by different relatives. I plan on taking this painful secrete to my grave.

96 Name: Abused, Molested & Raped : 2011-08-03 21:06 ID:6R6L1kt5

I am terribly sorry this seems to be such a burden for you to bear. I am only responding to your post to let you know you can put this behind you, live a productive life, and above all, be happy without guilt. I am male, and my abuse was committed by older males. From my first remembrances of my childhood, probably 3 or 4, I can remember "penis play sex-games," which I was too young to think were wrong, being played, with me being the one used by older relatives, mostly cousins. They considered themselves to be normal and ALL of these young men grew up to marry, live bisexual or totally hetrosexual lives but over my young childhood freely had sex with me in every way possible. From a very young age I was intrigued and almost welcomed this sex play. Though I knew it was something that should be kept from the eyes and knowledge of adults, I never considered it to be something really wrong. Around puberty I was physically raped by a cousin 7 years older than I. This mann had served 4 years in the military and was an adult. He penetrated me, initially with a great deal of pain, and initially I was very frightened when it happened. We kept an on/off relationsihp going until he married possibly 10 or so years later. I accepted the fact that I was gay. I am a very masculine man and just kept hoping something would change. This cousin married and fathered 7 children, and still on every occasion when he and I would meet at family gatherings and such, he would, without variation, make an excuse to somehow be alone with me for sex. Eventually, I began to avoid situations where he would be involved to avoid sex with him. Again, not because I felt guilty about it, but because I felt sorry for his spouse and children and I had developed other friendships and relationships. My parents and other family members never knew and I never saw any reason to tell them. I have never regretted not telling. I would suggest to you not to tell your family, and if necessary, just avoid your brother. My advise would also be to start a slow relationship with your father it will build and grow if nurtured a bit, even now. I have lived a happy, productive life, and have been with partner now for over 30 years. I make no excuses for anyone, including myself. We cannot make up for the past, mistakes or otherwise. Try to be positive, put a positive twist on you and start being happy. I believe we are responsible for our happiness. Best of luck to you.

97 Name: anonymous : 2011-08-07 07:40 ID:st8gARdJ

Please guys,it doest matter if you are 10 or 50,you need to tell someone. You are not responsible for the mistakes someone makes. You already have a great burden to bear,it time for you to claim back your life and start to work on your happiness. It was never your fault,reclaim what's yours (the innocence in all this). You have so much power at this moment,and not for bad but good. Abusers never stop,if they have done it to you,they are probably doing it to someone close to you,or them. Their sons,daughter,neiices and nephews,your children. Please don't let their innocence be taken too. The abusers also need help,this,what they did is not normal,they need help,to determine what went wrong. Release them too. Last words is please get some professional help,this is not something you can move on from like some people are advising you too,you can't forget. So do it right for your futures sake,you don't want to become or continue being the abuser. Be brave okay. Good luck.

98 Name: bobby : 2011-09-20 04:29 ID:79l0qVjI

You are allowing him to get away with what he did to you. He is. Just living life and you are the one suffering fro his actions. Set yourself free already and tell your family. Good luck.

99 Name: noname : 2011-09-26 15:05 ID:8pEr1IGY

I need an email to get help for my little brother whos being sexually abused by my younger sister. He told me and we told my mom and she doesn't believe its happening but he now sleeps on my floor because they both slept with my mom and now that he's told someone he doesn't want it happening anymore. I love him to death and don't want this happening. Idk if theres a place she could go to get rehab for doing things like that, or a therapist or something but my mom is of no help and I need something to be done. Please send me a link or email me at bkarageorge96@yahoo.com PLEASEEEE

100 Name: Anonymous : 2011-09-26 23:45 ID:kcX+KzKR

>>99
Put a stop to it yourself, why don't you.

101 Name: Anonymous : 2011-10-23 03:17 ID:+SYNYGNk

I was just sleeping and i woke up and someone was feeling me up i thought it was my boyfrined as he was sleeping next to me but it wasnt. It was my older brother. I could feel him touching me everywhere and he tried to go down there but i was shutting my legs. I was pretending to sleep hoping he will go away but he wouldnt so i told him to go, i begged him to go, i cant stop cring now as it happened about 20 minutes ago, what do i do ? please help me someone, please !

102 Name: Anonymous : 2011-10-23 03:27 ID:UGLmUBQn

>>101
In the morning, it's probably best to tell someone. That sounds terrible.

103 Name: Anonymous : 2011-10-23 21:13 ID:RQOjFGP7

>>101 I would just use a time when everyone is around to explain that you have been "touched" by your brother in an improper way.

Don't feel guilty about it, push all the guilt on him, and let your family support you.

104 Name: Anonymous : 2011-10-24 12:30 ID:kcX+KzKR

>>101
Why didn't you wake your boyfriend up? What the fuck?

105 Name: Anonymous : 2011-11-03 04:50 ID:POfNsazF

I am a male, now 23, married with a kid. When I was 4, I had a babysitter,a guy, who when everyone left for one and it's just us he would call me into the room look the door and give me his penis to play with it. He told me to play with it till the 'white milk' comes out and that was what I did. After that I end up feeling different from other kids. I am over conscious of myself, and ashamed to engage with other guys and talk with them. I have never told anyone, but I am a complete introvert now. I only talk and engage in conversations with others when I am drunk. I read this posting I know it has to do with what happened that time. I am big now and if I see that baby sitter again, I will cut off his penis.

106 Name: werya : 2011-11-07 16:04 ID:PnazRCmW

hi my name is werya im 28 years old i want see you .

107 Name: Anonymous : 2011-11-08 11:36 ID:OgfA8XEv

Oh, yeah? Well, at least
I don't touch Freddy.
Yeah, he touches my little brother. He takes
him behind the furnace and touches him.
He..He... He fingers him.

You hear that, Dad? You're gonna pay!

He's a molester. He's a child molester!

108 Name: Anonymous : 2011-11-12 09:31 ID:fnHxxlsR

Only a couple friends and my mom know these things about me but here we go I did alot of rotten things when I was younger like experimenting with my cousins (guys) more than once, doing stuff to animals, molesting my little cousin when I was 14 and also my step brother at tht same age.Im 20 now and too this day I still regret all the things I did when I was younger. I was shown porn when I was only 8 and my uncle and dad pretty much taught me things about sex tht a normal kid dnt learn till there about twelve and Im not saying its there fault its completely mine but I just wanted to explain these situations more detailed... Im a good person now and I would do anything to change all the things I did when I was a rotten teen but I cnt I just try to move on with my life.. the question is how old was ur brother?

109 Name: disguisted : 2011-11-21 03:53 ID:2kQqHgHq

i have been molested. and my mom is feeling guilty and pushes me away. she even said its to late to do something about it. (depression) im homeless and still
hurting as of now

110 Name: andrea : 2011-11-21 20:33 ID:6yO/TGwJ

I was molested when I was 13 by my dad. He would bribe me with stuff just so he could feel my breasts. One time he gave me $100 just to let him stick his hand down my pants for 5 minutes. I finally told my mom and it was a good thing because it turns out he was bribing my younger sister as well. Please tell!!!

111 Name: Anonymous : 2011-11-22 00:53 ID:DX1sCZxr

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check google for proof

112 Name: Anonymous : 2011-11-26 17:33 ID:maP8hsm5

oh my god how did i get here from hockey hits to pparents molesting kids

113 Name: bbgunn34 : 2011-11-28 04:50 ID:/FRw7UPC

my brother molested me too. u have to tell someone... at first i didnt want to ruin the family.. but its not ur fault he ruined the family.. and ur parents and rest of ur family will forgive him wether you forgive him is you choice but do tell someone or you will never be right... and also go see a counciler at first i thought i was going to hate it but in the end it really helped me relize it wasnt my fault... im not gay. but im not against gays in fact i think its shit tht its a LAW tht gay men cant get married.. but tell your family and maybe oneday ull relize ut was the right decision

114 Name: Angel143 :P : 2011-11-30 02:28 ID:RXjXIzuA

I need help idk if I was raped or not when I was younger..my mom had recently told me that she was when she was 8 and her dad had phisicaly abused her and my grandma all the time..I don't kno who had raped my mom she never had Told me..but she is kind of a trashy person now I used to live with her for awhile but now I live with my gma my mom never did tell her that she was raped but I'm not sure if I was or not I just got the thought that I might have bin at a really younger age because I have always bin terrified at night, I am a cruel person and emo -_-, plus it might explain y I am so messed up in a lot of different ways..there's more reasons then that that I don't want to say..I wish I could remember if I had bin or not it make angry >:(

115 Name: Anonymous : 2011-11-30 12:04 ID:3VLRoc4n

>>114 If you can't remember being raped, then forget about it. Better to address the problems you can see, and really must deal with, rather than look for "fashionable" problems you would like to have had to explain your current misery.

116 Name: tenaciouslydriven : 2011-12-02 09:36 ID:HGQp9NQ6

when I was 6 I was sexually molested by my biological father. He was drunk at the time and if my mom hadn't pulled up, he wouldve penetrated me. Welllater that year, I was molested/raped by an older cousin, he was like 14 at the time. I never said a word. I always kept to myself. Well growing up, I've always been a little effeminate so when those things started happening to me at such an early age, I blamed myself. Well when I was 11, my older brother, 15 held me down and penetrated me, then proceeded to release ( as in urinate ) himself inside of me! I was horrified, but once again, I didn't say anything. I kept to myself.. . . .years went by, me living in hurt, shame, and with no self esteem, I was weighing a whopping 275lbs by the age of 15, I had attempted suicide twice and was on my way to the grave! I was diagnosed with diabetes, high bloop pressure, high cholesterol and all. When I was 16 I had a light stroke at work. And that's when I woke up! And started doing bedda, eating healthier, whatever! Needless to say I lost over 120 lbs. Unfortunately when I was 18 I was raped by this 46 year old an, but by this time I had had enough! I tried to kill his azz! I got tired of being the fuqn victim. . . .god that bothers me! But I'm still here. You have to learn to forgive but you will never forget. Pray and ask God to have mercy on them and to help you ease your mind enuff to the point where you're able to have a conversation without being uncomfortable. You are an adult now, you have control over you, you know what is right and what is wrong. It's what it is, take it or leave it

117 Name: Anonymous : 2011-12-03 21:50 ID:E1VTfhDi

^jesus FUCKIN' christ!!!^
what fucking country does this chick live in??
hhhhhhooooly fuck! that is just about the most FUCKED UP story i've EVER, EVER heard in my entire life!! jesus, jesus, jesus!
i mean wutkinda?

118 Name: Anonymous : 2011-12-03 22:57 ID:o2GHkYe9

>>117 sad to say, could have been any country at all. This is why people should receive early sex education, and be informed on where they can get help if they have this kind of trouble.

119 Name: Chloe : 2011-12-04 06:18 ID:Kkc4oEz2

Okay soo all I wanted to say is that I'm a 14 year old girl who is sexually harrassed by my much older couisn it started out when I was 12 he made me hold hands with him under the blanket while watching a movie when the movie got to a part with sex he put his hand on my inner thigh and squeezed till it bruised then he grab my had and put it to where it was sitting on his erection and forced me to rub it for him well a while after that we went to our beach house and he tried to until my bathing suit and when I was walking pass him to go out side with everyone else he pulled me down on him and started to push his erection into my ass and everytime I tried to get up he would grab my hips rather hard and dig his nails into me to the point I was bleeding and I had to stay there till he jizzed in his pants he is really good friends with my step dad so when I stayed the night at our house when we got back from our beach house well as I was changing he came into my room and bite my neck leaving a mark and he made me suck him off to the point where I was choking on his dick and he keep going and slapped me cause i didn't swallow well it cme back to our next beach trip which was this year and I'm fourteen now and then and he is 31 while we where there he would grab my boobs and pussy and bruise them and he would pull my hair so he can bite my neck and he is always graving my ass and tryin to make me kiss him I really wish I could tell but he just got married and his wife is having a baby and I don't want to ruin his friendship with my dad

120 Name: anonymous : 2011-12-06 01:31 ID:RiTy+r/i

k

121 Name: Anonymous : 2011-12-06 08:40 ID:3VLRoc4n

>I don't want to ruin his friendship with my dad

What twisted line of thought is that? He is the one ruining the friendship by abusing his friend's daughter. He is an adult and fully responsible for his actions AND their consequences, not you.

It's good that you can speak of it in an anonymous board, but if you don't want this to poison your life, you should reach for psychological help. I suggest you call a help hotline specialized in sexual abuse, they will be able to tell you where to go for help in your region. There is much suffering you can avoid if you do that.

Don't worry about what happens to that guy, that's way down the line. For now just take care of yourself. But one thing is certain: never let that guy come into contact with you. And in order for you to manage that, you must get external help so that you know how to proceed in a sane manner. You don't have to solve this problem alone.

122 Name: sum1smom : 2011-12-10 01:47 ID:fhFdyGkv

People who have never been sexually abused cannot understand how it makes a victim of it feel. It makes even intelligent, rational people do things they wouldn't otherwise. I was molested by an older brother when I was 9 and he was 19. I blocked it out for a very long time, but when I was 21, that all changed. I finally told everyone what he had done. You cannot control how other people will react to finding something like this out. My father couldn't believe it. My mother felt guilty and didn't want to believe it. Neither of them ever turned away from my brother. In fact, even after all the other things he has done over the years, my mother lets him live with her because he is such a loser and cannot support himself. He has been to jail a couple of times because he stalks his ex-wife and my mother still looks the other way. It is a "good Christian thing" for her, I think.
I joined the military and got away from that area an now live 1000 miles away from my family. I had 10 brothers and sisters and I only keep in touch with a couple of them on a regular basis. None of my siblings will have anything to do with this brother after all the crap he has done. I just can't be near him in any way.
I have no regrets in ever telling what happened. It is good to tell someone and get it out of your head. That kind of thing eats you up and makes you angry and makes you feel like you are less a person than you are. You have to purge yourself of the secret and move on with you life.
It doesn't matter if you are gay or straight, this is ugly, painful and it can ruin your life to carry it around. There are NO extra points in life for being a martyr. You need to take care of yourself and find the help you need to face overcoming this violation you have gone through.
I have a son who is 13 who is harassed at school and on the bus, and today it turned to sexual harassment. I will not stand for it. No good parent should, but sometimes parents are haunted by their own demons and don't know how to handle a monster like this for their child, so they hide their heads in the sand and hope it will go away.
If you parent loves you, they will fight for you. If they can't, find someone who will. Go tell your teacher, a friend's parent, a police officer, whoever you can get to listen so it can end if it is happening now. And if it happened in the past, talk to a healthcare person and get the help you need to recover. There is hope for you to be the person you deserve to be, but holding it in will not let you do that.
"The truth shall set you free" and I know from experience, this is truth in itself.

123 Name: action now : 2011-12-18 00:40 ID:cIsJ23ti

Right! There are 7 BILLION people on this planet. All of them had a mother and a father, whether they know them or not. Abuse comes in many shapes and sizes and order of severity, when you are faced with incestual abuse, you are made to suffer in the same way as a political prisoner or a citizen of a corrupt regime: you live in constant fear and self doubt. I know as for me my incest story is 30 years old and only in the last 2yrs have I forced a situation whereby my abuser and I do not see each other, for the sake of my mental health. We have talked on the subject, I know his grief and guilt is true and I still care for him. However, and this is my advice: I am not that badly off: there are people who suffer much greater extremes of abuse, those poor street kids in India, Congo, Sierra Leone, poor women in Afghanistan, I could go on for pages but I am lucky to be able to walk away from the past. I feel for all those people who have suffered or are still suffering at the hands of the lies abusers use to manipulate. I understand. It is only 30yrs after the fact that I am strong enough to rationalise. Yet I have met children with much stronger convictions than myself, because they learnt one thing earlier than I did: there is nothing you can do to change the past, but your present is yours as is the future. If you are still being abused, talk to someone trustworthy: there are plenty of confidential ways of doing this. Do not confront your abuser directly, abuse can
get worse! If it is ritual abuse then you may have to involve the authorities as any abuser who repeats the abuse is not just a danger to you but others also, but most importantly do not suffer in silence - it WILL scar you for life if you cannot write it off and move on. Be brave, you will be amazed at what you are capable of. It is very hard on loved ones, if it is a close family situation. I have hurt my mother a great deal by telling her last year, in many ways I wish I hadn't. I know I did it to feel vindicated, but it just hurt her and causes more awkwardness: I still get asked why I don't want to go to family occassions - so am painted as an outcast, obviously my
mother and I don't want to make a bad situation worse. The abuse was 30yrs ago between children, it is over and not worth the aggro: friends and family have been born and died in that time. Just because I have deep seated resentment/envy/vengefulness doesn't mean I need be a prick and pathetic by tearing people's lives apart now. So! What I'm saying is get some
perspective, if it's serious get help, if you are locked in a family situation, tell someone outside the family. Build up YOUR support network and be prepared to cut off your family. It IS hard, but you only have one life - don't spend 1/2 of it being bitter as I have, deal with it, move on, don't do it others. Lastly, to those detailing their experiences on this page, remember abusers may read this as well as victims / survivors, don't give them the fuel they require to continue, be vague about details and concise about your problem. To all fellow survivors, my love and hope, you CAN be happy I promise. To all those abusers and abusive posters, fuck you and die, make some space for nicer people on or little planet.

124 Name: patrick : 2011-12-20 13:10 ID:FbtZ/8JO

Hello my friend, I just wanted to say that my story is exactly the same as yours. The only difference is I am 44 years old, and I have managed to find a way to move on with my life. I was 11 when this started happening, and my brother is two years old me. I am a gay man, and I'm sure that this has nothing to do with my brother. My reckless behavior, I now realize has little to do with what happened when I was 11. And my hatred for my older brother has subsided a little bit, but I realize it is mostly because he is a jerk. It has very little to do with being masturbated and come upon when I was a kid. I was a rather horny kid, and while what happened freaked me out, I found out that sexual experimentation was going down among my friends in a very similar fashion. I have little doubt that you were traumatized, but I suspect that your problems that are much larger, and also stemmed from societal intolerance of people of our type. I have been seeing a psychiatrist, which is not cheap. But it has proved helpful. And I see now that my brother has problems of his own. I don't know if he remembers what happened, but I forgive him for it. The problems I had had in my life, can not even nearly be blamed on him. I spoke with my psychologist about saying something, and I realized that not only would it not help me, but it would hurt so many other people. But I'm not going to tell you that you should not pursue whatever roads bring you to good mental health. Perhaps a confrontation just between you and your brother would help, but I'm guessing it would bring you more pain, because I doubt he will understand why you were digging up something from so far in the past. He will likely only see it as an attack on him. I can almost guarantee you that your parents will not see this in the same light that you do. Because they love both of you and cannot be expected to change because of what you tell them. Is this fair? You know it is not. I think that if you look at your history of insecurity, you may find that there's a lot more to this than just those childhood events. We are made up of all the things that happened to us in our lives, the good and the bad. Much of your behavior reflects poor self esteem, I am the king of that behavior, I am lucky that I do not have AIDS. I went through many years of very reckless sexual behavior, as well as drinking and drug abuse, trying to escape who it is that I am. But no matter how hard you try, you are still you. And it is my opinion that you are a valid and beautiful person. It is your actions from this day forth that will help determine the kind of person that you are, and the kind of person that you want to be.... If acceptance from the people around you is what you desire, then you must be accepting of the people around you for who and what they are, and I know that is a big pill to swallow, a really big pill to swallow! (continued next post)

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