Hell in a hand basket (9)

1 Name: Gray : 2008-06-04 10:15 ID:F/s5sP8x

I'm not really someone who usually comes to a place like this. I was introduced to it on the job, and found it was interesting, but that I was too old to enjoy a place like this. Anyway, I came back from work today tired, worn out, and having missed anything except a cheap cup ramen and some fucking terrible coffee. As usual.

Well, this wasn't enough to get me thinking, but checking some of the news feeds I subscribe to, was. The internet 'ending', a mass murder of knowledge to privatize the last great hope of freedom, fake wars and fake politicians, and faceless fucking bastards that are like the worst sort of criminals. What I hate the most is that I will never, ever, be able to arrest that sort of manipulator that messes this great nation up, but I'll always be free to chase after some stoner kid.

We need to change things around here.. I'm pretty active in the PPSA, and that works for minor things. But, no one seriously belives that this country is democratic any more, or feels that this election was anything more than a staged gimmick-show. So, I suppose what I'm asking, is if there were support for redoing the government from the ground up from Civil Servants and the like, who else would be in?

2 Name: Citizen : 2008-06-06 05:06 ID:ShQFc7bZ

This country was never Democratic, a democratic government has people vote on the issues and also upon leadership.

A republic is what we are, in a republic style government people vote on their representation and those representatives vote onthe issues.

And of course anyone who believes in democracy is for "Redoing the government", bitching about problems and voting on ways to solve them is the very foundation of democratic freedom. Anything else causes stagnation and corruption. Simply put, anyone who is nationalistic, conservative or denies change is NOT an American.

Proof is in what Thomas Jefferson said about Democracy:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

3 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E : 2008-06-06 15:50 ID:Heaven

Uh, it is a democracy.

It's also a republic.

What is this "it's not a democracy" meme that Americans have?

4 Name: Citizen : 2008-06-07 00:11 ID:Heaven

>>3
Because we are literally not living in a democracy, you are responding to "Democracy" in terms of a popular American buzzword, not the definition of the word as a type of government.

Take some time to educate yourself you stupid fuck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forms_of_government

5 Name: Citizen : 2008-06-07 01:29 ID:Heaven

>>4

> Democracy is a system of government by which political sovereignty is retained by the people and either exercised directly by citizens or through their elected representatives.

what's the issue here?

6 Name: Citizen : 2008-06-07 02:05 ID:Uh7pPDz7

>>5
It is a very large issue for some people. There is from a historical perspective significant difference between the type of government one has when the people vote on legislation directly (example, Athenian democracy) and what one has when the people vote for representatives who will work with other representatives to direct the government in the interest (at least theoretically) of the people (example, the early Roman republic).

It is not the case that one must be good or one must be evil, though I would also note that when Athens ruled by direct democracy it was a ruthless imperialistic state feared and hated by its neighbors. But some believe that having a layer of representatives who cooperate and discuss matters can prevent the tyranny of the mob that Athens suffered. On the other hand, too many fossilized layers results in rule by the lobbyists and representatives who ignore the wishes of their people, which America suffers today.

These are very different systems of government and it is worthwhile to discuss them. Once upon a time civics classes taught the students about this sort of thing, back when the Earth's crust was cooling.

7 Name: dmpk2k!hinhT6kz2E : 2008-06-07 04:09 ID:Heaven

> Take some time to educate yourself you stupid fuck.

Irony.

Unfortunately, >>5 beat me to it. How is the US government ostensibly not a representative democracy? Be detailed and specific, &c.

8 Name: Citizen : 2008-06-07 21:37 ID:Heaven

words mean different things in different contexts, >>2,4,6 get out.
sorry gray.

9 Name: Citizen : 2008-06-08 17:39 ID:iXJdmXh+

>>6
no u

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