why do so many people hate Americans?
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The USA's foreign policies have something to do with it. We, the countries of whom are not the United States of America all agree that what the USA do to their own is not our problem. What you do to us, however, is our problem.
>>1
Bush administration != Americans
Bush administration == Hate
Americans != Hate
o rly?
http://www.cafepress.com/web_store/219067
It's a common fallacy of unsystematical political thinkers that politics are supposed to be largely dominated by a specific group of people or a single person.
well even some of us Americans also hate the bush adminastration
i think that some of the ideals of American scociety have been breaking down for years...i mean the patriot act is Juest one more excuse for certan federal organazations to detain ordanary people. had the extention to the patriot act been passed people would be screened for the things for which they read
some people "hate Americans", because of the US' policies.
some people "hate Americans", because it's the "hip" thing to do right now.
some people "hate Americans", because their ideology tells them to ("Nigger-Jew-Conspiracy from New York").
and some people "hate Americans", because they have decided that those millions of Americans who fit all the stereotypes outweight the handful ("also millions!") who don't.
that stereotype is not quite as large frome what i have seen...now i do admit that many Americans are fat,stupid,anoying pigs...but the rest of us who are not idiots far make up for that. as for US policies, i do admit that i dont agree with them, and frankly so do many Americans
(apology to the world: sorry that Bush won again)
It's not just Bush you know. A lot of US presidents fucked things up around the world a lot too. The US has strong worldwide influence, so they have a lot more opportunities to fuck things up. Anyway, it is stupid to blame the presidents for everything the US does in their terms.
true, however i belive John Kerry could have done more good than George Bush...working closer with the worlds contrys may be slower, but the US alone should not make the choices that shape the world. I belive that John Kerry could have acchaved this in more ways than Bush has.
Do you know that during the presidential elections, Ratzinger (who is now pope, remember?) advised the American catholic bishops to excommunicate Kerry and all those who'd vote for him because supposedly Kerry was pro abortions and pro "euthanasia"?
Amusingly enough, he explicitly stated that war and death penalty were issues catholics were allowed to disagree on, but not on abortions and "euthanasia".
not all of the people who voted fore cary where catholic or fore that matter christion 4 that matter...what the catholic chirch said is none of my concern.
sory about the spelling
I just brought up that little bit of info to show that there's a lot of interests involved in US domestic and foreign politics that aren't neccessarily directly affected by them.
This is, to me, among the most interesting issues with the US' role in global history right now: Where sovereignity (of a state) begins and where it ends, theoretically as well as practically.
>>16
There is a lot of involment. The dollar crashing affects other markets. The US issuing economic sanctions on countries which declined to go to the war in Iraq, means suffering for those countries. Foreign journalists/helpers getting killed by US troops. People living in an European country getting kidnapped by the CIA, sent elsewhere for torture. The US issuing orders to foreign countries to stop such and such activities, not going thru the UN for coordination and approval.
Plus the human rights aspect, it feels uneasy for any sensible human being to hear that innocent men, women and children are getting killed day after day.
not only that but what about the suposed "terorists" being held.the problem that i have is that none of these people are getting fair tryals. Acording to what my father says (he is a US Airforce cornal)there pisaners wont be freed even if they are aquited...
Umm... most of the world doesnt' agree with american values, buddy.
Posting in a legendary thread.
unfortanantly in the modern world cpitalism is a major part of a stong and industrealized contry. i mean its not like capitalism is alwase a good thing, but we cannot change how it affects ower lives. not to mention the fact that because of capitalism people can work(in a non yealding job), than buy what they want.
> but we cannot change how it affects ower lives
Yes we can. That's why the market is regulated.
but it still and a profound influence on ower every day lives...i mean juest the fact that you are using a computer online is only possabul because of capitalism. whene you go out to eat, this is somthing else that would not be possabul without capitalism. litteraly anytime you use money for anything capitalism is affecting your life.
It's also the "general" american populace mentality of "we are the greatest nation on earth". Most of them think the American way is the only way and anybody else's is insignificant. There was a survery that showed 70% of the populace didn't even have a passport. Showing how well americans know about other cultures.
i totaly agree with you.unfortanatly most Americans juest dont care about other cultures or other languages, and this more than anything piss me off about many Americans( b/c i'm going into the linguistical anthropology). fortanatly however, there are some of my fellow countrymen who are interested with the world outside America
> ( b/c i'm going into the linguistical anthropology). fortanatly
NO DON'T
> There was a survery that showed 70% of the populace didn't even have a passport. Showing how well americans know about other cultures.
>>28
Because it shows they have never left the country on an overseas holiday. It just one indicator of how well the populace travels and knows about other cultures. And I am not talking about just flying like to Europe or Asia. I am talking about as well going over the border to South America or even Canada (though ok Canada you don't need a passport to enter). And it wasn't made up survery when it was reported in the BBC.
BBC > CNN
It's true that Americans don't do as much international travel as folks from other nations, especially Europeans, but think of it this way... You're an American and you want to travel. Wanna go somewhere tropical? You can head to Hawaii, Florida or Puerto Rico. Wanna go somewhere chilly? Head to Washington, Montana or, of course, Alaska. Wanna see amazing natural sights? Go to Yosemite or Yellowstone or the Rockies or the Grand Canyon. Heck, you can find great skiing, great surfing, great camping, great hiking, big cities, small towns, forests, deserts, and more all without leaving just California, much less America... Compare this with the small and relatively monoterraneous (if you will) countries of Europe, and you can see why fewer Americans travel internationally -- there's little need to.
As for ignorance of other cultures... Find me any country in the world more multicultural than America, please.
America dose have alot of racial diverity, however most of these people adhere primeraly to an American culture and less and less to there traditinal ways. I think it is important to reconnect with ones heratige; and what better way to do that than go to the place where your ancesters came from.
not to mention, how many Americans know the traditinal values of another cultures. or for that matter how many Americans can actuly speek more than one language
People hate america because they're and empire. Not much to say besides that. We may not act like countries are part of our empire, but they really are... We go into a country and we set up a base, and we never leave.
Nothing lasts forever...
The point isn't that America has diverse terrain, or even a diverse population. The point is that culture doesn't change much from place to place, as it does in, say, Europe. Take Germany, Austria, and Switzerland for example. All three countries speak German (well, Switzerland also speaks French and Italian, but that's not the point), but the cultural and historical differences are quite drastic. One does not see such contrast in America.
The US just can't compare to a nation awesome enough give us Freud, Hitler, Haider, and set off WWI (and thanks to Hitler, WWII).
Here's some (new) fodder:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-americanism
This is not so true...lets look at for example the difference between the North East, the souththwst, the midwest, Hawaii and the "south" (which i have lived in each of these regons)
the southwest has primeraly a Mexican and centrel american influence where as lets say Hawaii has a huge Japanese and Chinese influence. in the south we can find people speeking French because of the cagons(which has French roots)as well as the remonats of the old plantatins.also in the south we can find a strong and very traditianal Black comunitys. the midwest is very much farming comuitys, even in the larger citys we can see this infuence.
hell... Hawaii and Texas where bolth at one point its own country! the contrast in "culture" within the US is profound if you have the eye to make the distinction, so to say that the culture dosent change much frome place to place is ubserd
>>38 makes good points, albeit whilst demonstrating a tenuous grasp of the English language.
Because god gave is the right to do so.
Perhaps a mild case of dyslexic dysgraphia.
In any case, it's no big mystery that there's some friction between the different parts of the US as well. Take a look at the whole North/South flamefest, or the attitudes that city- and country-dwellers have for each other.
Maybe people hate Americans because their regime places bombs in London to give themselves an excuse to prolong their so-called "Patriot Act" and further take away the liberties of their own citizens, and others...?
Or is that too paranoid?
Well, Hawaiians hardly consider themselves Americans, but that's besides the point...
Look at the bottom of the page, for comments from people "from the USA": http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=9270
Hay, i am Hawaiian... so please dont assume things. i do in fact think of myself as an american...but, yah shure i do want my people to be freed, but there is littel i can relly do but to perserve my culture
Noho au ma Hawai'i. A me, o'lelo au i ka o'elo Hawai'i
He koma'aina au
bollocks to that, usa gave the world j. edgar hoover, jimmy hoffa, terrenc mckenna and took some part in most (if not all, depending on the definition of the following word) major (yep, that's that following word thing) armed conflicts of the 20th century
ps.(i like these () things even though at the moment i could not remember what they're called with a gun to my head)
>>48
Parentheses.
>>45
lol internet
I think that people 'hate' any entire population of any country because of ignorance. They base their judgement on black sheep (few OR many in number) and politics. I'd say there are many good reasons to dislike American capitalist expansion and the fact that few Americans bother to learn a 2nd language. (See March editorial article in Houston Chronicle on 'foreign languge month').
>>35 is blatantly wrong. If s/he has lived in or spent a significant amoutn of time in America, s/he would know the cultural differences of the Est, West, and 'Third' (Southern) Coasts. Hell, even wishing to distinguish 'your' coast from the 'other' coasts reveals an underlying conciousness of that coastal cultural as unique, or a active dislike of another coastal culture. Also, >>35 is being unfair by comparing countries to states. Yes, there will be more cultural variation in the European Union because it is composed of different countries, and countries have this funny little way of carving out a culture for themselves. And, well, that's just the coasts. There are other cultural regions, too - they have accents, slang, and mannerisms just like regions in the UK. Is that not culture?
Unfortunately, mass media/mass consumerism/mass marketing/sprawling corporations can have a degradative affect on any country. If there's a McDonald's in Hollywood and a McDonald's in San Antonio, a McDonald's 'culture' will be transmitted to both those cities - this is especially more important because McDonald's has a strong, corporate, advertising-based outlook, thus needing a homogeneous culture to transmit. If every McDonald's had different adverts and different slogans, the brand would not be as strong. Just because every large city in the United States has a McDonald's doesn't mean they've been homogenised. Many cities change McDonald's, they force it to carry x product, to give customers more nutritional info. See information on In-n-Out Burger, a California-based fast food chain, for an example of postive local corporations.
And speaking of mass media, BBC is better than commericial American news - and many who seek out important and informative news items know that. PBS, while a tad subliminal in it's advertising, is growing from seeds sown by BBC. It is a fairly good (though under-supported) emulation of the BBC style.
Multinational corporations are everywhere; they come from Europe and Asia as well. Any anti-Americanism hinging on corporate abuses and capitalism should target them, too. Schlumberger, anyone? It's wording might be suspect, but this isn't a dig at Europe, just a simple fact.
An American tourist helped the injured Londoners in these recent blasts, along with Britons, Muslims, and others. Does anyone hate her? She might have a Texan accent, that was her first time out of the US (she was ~35), but she did help. Don't hold those things against her. (source: Sky News, morning after the attacks)
And, well, most of us know about the more blatantly political arguements against the United States. I don't like the political system, I don't like the lack of choice, I don't like the majority's view on sexual issues, I don't like the baseless war, I don't like the PATRIOT ACT I & II, I don't like the imperialism. But, hey, I like the United States. It isn't superior, it's an equal to the major cultural powers of Europe and Asia, and that's how it should be portrayed.
I hope ** makes Italics. if TL;DR, then here's a summary: >>35 has not observed cultural regions in America well enough to realise subtlties or even basic differences. Mass markets affect every country. There are corporations from all around the world (and I believe they can have negative, as well as positive effects); they are not American phenomenons. Americans have helped people earnestly, and that's not bad. That doesn't extend to the whole population, but are those indivduals to face anyone's hate STILL, after doing good? On political issues, blah. Dislike the politics, don't push that dislike on ALL of the population. I couldn't care for the politics of many countries; I'm certainly receptive towards their people.
>>49
lol...im glad people think like i do since you reiderated my point...thankyou
< 2 cents worth:
No one really hates America, they hate how different and unacceptable America is to their current culture. People hate change, and change largely is the reasoning for conflict (this is all generalized, plz don't rip into me about these opinions... see? OPINIONS!). Europe, not much different. Middle East? Hella different. And guess what they have which America and Europe need on a daily basis? Oil. That's all there is to it. Like the Native Americans and their massive amounts of land, the ME's have oil, or as Jon Stewart put it, "our oil". History, repeating itself. Ahh, how the world turns and maintains it's precarious orbit around a ball of energy that could wipe our existence from the very black emptiness that mocks our own dependence on its viscous, dinosaur-corpse existensial cousin.
Note: ME's may just hate being blown up and killed over a resource that they have absolutely no desire to control past the value we in America and Europe have for it. I dunno. I'm just a rambling neophyte roaming the endless weeb. No one takes this shit seriously and ironically remains the greatest source of unbiased information we as a race have ever seen.
Unrelated: The World is one confused minagery of endless stupidity and periods of progress. Which are you?
I think people are ignoring the sheer size of America, as other people have mentioned you can travel -IN- the country and see a much different place than you can in other places, but on top of that it's one hell of a lot harder to go somewhere else. Have any of you Europeans actually traveled to the U.S.? I've met plenty of well traveled Europeans who have been to just about every country in western Europe but maybe four or five who have been to the states. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting any of you to come here. The only thing you might learn is how easy it is to get sucked into the fast food culture) but I was an army brat that spent large amounts of her childhood in other countries and when we were in Germany the same amount of planning went into flying to paris for a week as our vacation to Disney world ten years later, but going back home for Christmas was a year long planning event.
I don't agree with how a lot of Americans view the world, but I can kind of understand it.
>>54
I've read a few British travel guides on America. They're excellent and really do a good job of explaining the diversity. Of course, they (like EVERY travel guide) have a bit of a tourist or 'look! a foregin culture!' tone...
Any guide that mentions a San Francisco gay bathhouse is good enough for me!
i play many korea games legally, and have to say the attitude shown towards english speakers or americans is just appaling, abuse thrown at anyone who talks english, i often find myself defending english speakers in foreign games because of racist jackasses
i cant say why people hate americans, i have no problem with americans, americans are great at playing games, americans or good to play with when they arent argueing over who is better or whatever
>>56
People who speak english are not a race, nor do those who live in english-speaking countries constitute a race. I believe the word you are looking for is 'xenophobia' or possibly just plain old discrimination.
People who speak English natively are generally not Korean (barring children of immigrants, of course). Thus, Koreans belittling English speakers still smacks of racism in my opinion.
I dunno, if you are not targetting specific races it seems like plain old xenophobia to me. Especially Korea doesn't seem to make much of a difference in their opportunistic propaganda against everybody else.
Could be wrong, though.
Korea's a pretty homogenous place; not many people there that aren't Korean... Kind of hard to say there's not an element of race there. I don't think it has to target a specific race if it's still putting one race above all others.
I suppose some people just need an outlet for bad mood of theirs. They will blame anybody but themselves for their real and imaginary problems.
"iam a loser, but because of bad guys made me so". Maybe very often people fall victims to circumstances, but people hardly can "blame circumstances" - they think that they will be clearly seen as whiners then. So they think that blaming something more substantial make it "constructive criticism and fight against oppression", etc, etc.
Thats the usual stuff with inferiority complex. Unfortunately too many modern people are affected by it in one way of other.
I do not hate the American people. I have many American friends who are fine people.
I hate America's politicians for the following reasons:
> I do not hate the moon people. I have many moon friends who are fine people.
I despise this stupid and meaningless with a fierce and bitter passion! It's so apologetic and overdone!
In short, you're making a bunch of trite and old arguments (except for #2, no idea WTF that is). Try again or go away.
>PATRIOT ACT PATRIOT ACT ZOMG I know nothing about it but other people who also know nothing about it are afraid of it so PATRIOT ACT ZOMG, I mean surely it has turned America into a police state where hundreds are falsely imprisoned each day right?
In a country of close to 300 million people, hundreds being imprisoned under a specific law each day is quite reasonable.
Of course, people would learn about this.....except the patriot act allows making it criminal to say anything about it.
>>62 may have been a standard tiresome anti-US rant by someone, but the patriot act sucks big time. I cannot comprehend why you mind someone not liking it.
Oh bull-freakin'-shit. You too are ranting against this bill without knowing anything about it except its hype. Makes it illegal to talk about people being imprisoned? The hell did that come from?
Please read about what this bill actually does, and what it has actually been used for, and you'll probably be surprised at its benign-ness compared to all the fuss idiots make about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
The fact that it's been overblown doesn't automatically mean it's not problematic. I thought you were a supporter of lessened government power - shouldn't you oppose it on those grounds alone?
>>68
You're driving him into the liberals/conservatives dichotomy again, you mischievous rascal!
>>68: Of course it's problematic, and of course there are parts of it that I'm uncomfortable with. But my point is that people who just accept the nonsense that gets passed around about how the PATRIOT Act has turned America into a police state under constant martial law without bothering to find out the facts for themselves are people not worth trying to have a conversation with. These are people that just steadfastly believe things people tell them if it sounds good to them, instead of believing things that are true and ignoring things that are not. These are the people that are making Michael Moore and Al Franken more rich.
> Michael Moore and Al Franken more rich
Behold! The free market at work!
;D
>Behold! The free market at work!
Hahaha! That comment was so mean that no-one outside Slashdot really deserved it though. ; )
>>67 Oh and I'll get back to this when I've read the entire act....I admit my knowledge of it wasn't good enough so reading it all can't hurt.
Hey, I never said it was wrong. But to pretend Moore or Franklin are more in touch with working-class America than Bush and Cheney is ludicrous.
"I work in a casino."
"That's great! You take stupid people's money! Very capitalist!"
I hate because americans burn 1/4 of all world's oil. (Even though they are only 250 million people)
>PATRIOT ACT PATRIOT ACT ZOMG I know nothing about it but other people who also know nothing about it are afraid of it so PATRIOT ACT ZOMG, I mean surely it has turned America into a police state where hundreds are falsely imprisoned each day right?
It reeks of Stalin's Russia, and the law was passed in a "free" society. It's enough to irk me.
>Your country signed into NAFTA. We didn't invade your country and steal your lumber or anything.
Brian Mulroney, the one who signed the FTA and then the conservative leader who signed the NAFTA in 1992 were both voted out with the most number of seats in Canadian history. Now America is claiming that when Canadian's are being protectionist, it is unlawful and wrong, but when America practices protectionism over its wood industry, it's "protecting capital interests".
>So freeing the Iraqis was a bad thing, something we shouldn't have wasted our time doing?
America went to war to protect itself from the Bad Guys. America went to war for ITSELF, not the democracy or freedom of a bunch of people. But once the damage was done and the government found nothing (like they knew they would) they shifted their propaganda campaign to Promoting Democracy And Freedom For Those Poor Iraqi's.
It wasn't about helping the Iraqi's at all. It was about America's people being frightened little sheep, and swallowing everything Bush and his cronies give them.
Just so you know, during the war, 1/3rd of Americans thought Saddam Hussien had used WMD's against American troops during the Shock And Awe campaign.
People hate Americans because it's easier to see people as members of a group than as individuals.
I SOLVED THE THREAD.
>>77
It's not as if a majority of Americans stands in violent opposition to their own citizenship...
>It was about America's people being frightened little sheep, and swallowing everything Bush and his cronies give them.
If you're trying to endear us to your point of view, you're failing completely.
I don't think he cares.
Americans aren't sheep. The ones I've met were all capable of critical thought (although, admittedly, my sample is biased towards academia). <insert nasty side comment about the Bible Belt>
The problem comes from the information they're provided with. US media is one-sided and disgustingly empty. It's like MTV wearing a newsman's clothing. I can't stand watching CNN, FOX, MSNBC, et al because I have the strangest sensation my IQ is dropping by the minute. Yet this is the tripe Americans are fed with every day. Unless they actively seek out news sources in other countries, they're almost doomed to think a certain way.
Anybody who believes that someone who is constantly soaked in a particular worldview will seriously consider alternate possibilities outside of that worldview is deluding themselves. We are shaped by our environment. See: psychology.
FYI, Australian TV is just as bad. Argh! Kill!
lol Patriot Act
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/09/AR2005090901847.html
"For the second time since the USA Patriot Act broadened the FBI's power to demand private records in secret, a federal judge ruled yesterday that it is unconstitutional for the government to impose an automatic and permanent ban on public disclosure of any case in which it uses that power.
U.S. District Judge Janet C. Hall found that the statutory gag order, invoked every time the FBI uses a "national security letter" to demand information in terrorism or espionage cases, violated the First Amendment rights of a Connecticut library consortium that is refusing to cooperate with the FBI."
>>81
you are absolutely correct about CNN et al. But is the national news of other countries much better? I used to watch BBC and some french news and it seemed just as trivial.
>>83 The way I see it... CNN is probably the closest America has to a good news network. NBC and ABC are more biased in the direction of supporting the Democratic Party. CBS also leans in that direction. Fox news is blatently Biased towards the republicans. If you notice when they have a debate between "Experts" They have a very vocal, strong willed, good worded guy representing the Republican view. And have a weaker guy representing the Democrats, Usually the latter has less information thus the "Republican Expert" can trip him up and make the Democrat look dumb.
CNN Does occasionally lean to one side or the other, more at a matter of conveniance. But for the most part attempts to bring the news from the dead center of the rift. Trying to equally show both sides view.
In the words of Lewis Black: "America is the only country in the world that announces to the rest of the world on a nearly constant basis that it is the greatest country on the planet. And that's pretty fuckin' obnoxious."
I hate americans because they dropped atomic bomb to our country, and they say it was right and empire of Japan was wrong. It is why I come to be revisionist.
The Atomic Bombing of Japan was neccessary only in the aspect of it was the most peaceful way to get Japan to surrender with the least amount of death. (Braces for reaction) The reason I say this is we had two choices for an unconditional surrender of Japan. Either drop the A-Bomb. Or full out Invade. I respect Japan and their honor to their nation. Every man and woman, and even children would stand against the American forces. Thus,Both sides would have lost millions in the Invasion. It would have taken many years, and the russians then would have gotten involved as well, causing more turmoil in the effect of loss of life then land disputes. Now, I mourn for the life lost in those two cities, and hold a moment of silence on the anneversarys, though not japanese, my brother (Who comes from a different father, from my moms previous marrage) is Half Japanese. His great grandfather was Mitzumi Shimizu. The Commander of the Japanese Submarine Fleet in WWII. Also the man who was a part in Proposing to Hirohito that they attack pearl harbor. I do not see the Atomic Bombings as "Vengence for Pearl Harbor" Like so many say it was. The Dolittle Raid in early 1942 was the revenge strike for Pearl. I see the atomic bombing as a horrendous yet neccessary act which saved more lives in the long run. And I pray every day that these weapons never are used in combat again.
No, the US has shit news. Period. There are no ifs, ands, ors, or buts. I lived in Canada for over a decade, and I saw the junk the major news networks pump out. When I say they're MTV in newsman's clothing, I don't say that in jest.
I can think of numerous examples where I simply couldn't believe what I was hearing, but my favorite anecdote is this:
A few days after the twin towers came down, I was watching the US news networks work themselves in a frenzy (call it a morbid fascination of mine). Suddenly I came across a discussion where some "experts" were going to argue the reasons behind the terrorist attack. The moderator introduced the three individuals with a long list of qualifications, and by the looks of it, this was going to be a serious discussion.
Oh, this was good. I sat down, getting ready to be enlightened. I was waiting for an argument that would be worthy of political analysts or politics professors specialized in the Middle East.
The first person sits up, and confidently states: "They attacked us because they hate our freedom."
...what? Okay, fine, let's hear person no.2:
"Yes, I agree. They hate the United States because of the freedoms we enjoy."
Anybody with an IQ above "mentally challenged" can recognize this is false with even a little bit of thought. So, here I am, waiting for the third person to tear these two idiots to shreds.
Guy no.3 agrees with the first two.
Incidentally, I believe this was CNN.
It's a good thing you have a perfect knowledge of events that never happened, because otherwise, how would you be able to rationalize actions after they occured?
>>89 The hell are you talking about?
Which event that I mentioned did not happen? Hrm, let me see.
Pearl Harbor happened.
The Dolittle Raid Happened.
Hiroshima and Nagisaki happened.
And the planned invasion of Japan was slated to start in October of 1945, yet Truman decided to attempt to divert it with the atomic weaponry. And succeeded. Japan held their honor high. If their nation was directly invaded, they would fight to the bitter end. Just as if America was invaded today. Not only would the invaders have to deal with the Military. But Gangs, Rednecks, and damn near anyone who is willing to fight for their country, or their home.
>Japan held their honor high. If their nation was directly invaded, they would fight to the bitter end. Just as if America was invaded today. Not only would the invaders have to deal with the Military. But Gangs, Rednecks, and damn near anyone who is willing to fight for their country, or their home.
This is a common perception, but it's not all that clear. Many things point to Japan being very afraid of further Soviet invasion. The Red Army approaching often increased people's will to surrender to the western powers dramatically.
I don't particularily mind the US using nukes those two times though. War is messed up, not using nukes won't magically make everything nice in any case. This doesn't make me think Nagasaki was necessary though.
people hate americans because lets face it, nobody likes the generic big guy. see rome, see the han, see microsoft, see mcdonalds, see the brit empire, see walmart, see naruto and other popular commericial things
and also, america is pretty conservative compared to most industrialized countries, especially asia where morality is only a convenient buzzword (no offense of course, im asian, and asian countries do just fine without morals). We all know how we feel towards people who are more conservative than us, and not everyone can hold back that desire to say "you're fucking nuts"
that hate pretty much just snowballs into a tradition, half the teens here in canada "hate" the americans, most of them have no idea why they should
>>92
Thank you for your detailed analysis into modern mass psychology and its relations to international relations and historical crises.
>>91 I understand fear. But when the enemy is there killing your family, and taking your land, many would stand and fight. Wouldn't you rather fight and die to protect what is yours and what/who you love? Or would you surreneder and watch those be taken from you.
>asia where morality is only a convenient buzzword (no offense of course, im asian, and asian countries do just fine without morals).
I am totally ROFLing. Thanks, dude.
> Which event that I mentioned did not happen?
How about:
> Every man and woman, and even children would stand against the American forces. Thus,Both sides would have lost millions in the Invasion. It would have taken many years, and the russians then would have gotten involved as well, causing more turmoil in the effect of loss of life then land disputes.
>>96 I know it did not happen, because we used a way to avert that situation. What, do you think the Japs would have danced in the streets and welcomed the American soldiers? They would have fought us. Some may surrender, but a majority would have fought. We anticipated the worst case scenario with the invasion of Japan, which would have left well over a million dead. So we chose to see if we could end the war before millions of americans and japanese are killed in the invasion.
the nukes on two cities were ok but the attack on wtc was wrong?
hypocrisy? word.
The Atomic (Not Nukes, very big difference in the two) Strike on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were wartime strikes neccessary to avert a larger amount of death involved with an invasion of Japan, as well as done with the intent of ending the war. I never say they were ok, but they were neccessary. I think Atomic, Hydrogen, and Nuclear weaponry is an abomination of mankinds intellegence.
The attacks on the WTC were peace time terrorists attacks with the soul intention of killing civillians.
There is a large difference between the two. One was Nation to Nation. The other was Just genocide.
You're still talking about things that never happened and that you frankly haven't the slightest clue about as if they were objective facts. You're making blanket generalizations like "Some may surrender, but a majority would have fought" that do not have the slightest connection to reality. You're ignoring the fact that people are rational beings and will not willingly walk to their deaths when they have the option of living. You're ignoring that the Japanese military command knew very well that they were losing already, and were already planning to surrender. You're ignoring the ulterior motives of dropping the bombs. You're bascially looking a lot like you're making up a fairytale to justify the bombings to yourself.
What other motives to the bombings did america have? Please. Enlighten me. The top brass looked at a worst case scenario of the invasion of japan. When going to war, you must look at the worst case scenario and plan for it, else you end up in a situation much like Iraq. You seem to see it from only Japan's side. America had no way of knowing they were planning to surrender, for it was kept in secracy. As far as we knew they were wanting to fight as well.
>..terrorists attacks with the soul intention of killing civillians.
Let's see what Webster has to say:
>terror
>4 : violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
Though admittedly killing civilians wasn't only goal. Gaining information about the damage profile when nukeing a city was important too.
>There is a large difference between the two. One was Nation to Nation.
120000/3000=40. The minimum atrocity-multiplier if you're wearing civvies instead of khaki.
> The other was Just genocide.
> What other motives to the bombings did america have?
Stalin.
That, and it made a great testing ground.
This is a complex issue, and a whole slew of factors lead to the decision(s).
>The other was Just genocide.
Exaggerate much?
You have a point there. But then again, using said devices also set off probably the most terrifying 4 decades of modern times.
I consider the intentional slaughter of Civillians in a time of peace Genocide. The civillians in New York, or those on board the plane, what had they themselves done to deserve the attacks.
After the war in Japan had ended. Did we just leave them to suffer in the ruins? No. After the surrender had been met according to the terms of the agreement. Our forces went in to rebuild and assist them in returning to a functional nation. Without our rebuilding... The question is would Japan be at this point technologically? Probably not, but you can never be certain.
A little known fact. In the late 1930's and early 1940's Japan was working on a Nuclear Weapons program as well. And may have actually tested a device in Korea. We will never really know the full details of their program. Since all save for a few documents were destroyed. The world did not know of Japans WWII Era program until 2001.
> I consider the intentional slaughter of Civillians in a time of peace Genocide.
gen·o·cide (jĕn'ə-sīd')
n.
The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.
http://www.answers.com/genocide&r=67
> After the war in Japan had ended. Did we just leave them to suffer in the ruins? No. After the surrender had been met according to the terms of the agreement. Our forces went in to rebuild and assist them in returning to a functional nation. Without our rebuilding... The question is would Japan be at this point technologically? Probably not, but you can never be certain.
This was overall quite a good course of action (that some might want to try and recall today), but it has no real bearing on the current discussion. Actually, it just sounds like more rationaliziation on your part.
Also:
> The Atomic (Not Nukes, very big difference in the two)
what
>>107 Atomic Bombs and Nuclear Bombs are very different in nature.
And yes, in a sense I do rationalize the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki... I felt it a necessary action when looking at the scenario unfolding at the time. Remember that Hindsight is always 20/20. But then they had no clue what was coming, and planned and acted for the worst. I rationalize it, but I do dispise nuclear/atomic/hydrogen/biological/chemical weaponry.
>You're ignoring the fact that people are rational beings and will not willingly walk to their deaths when they have the option of living.
And assuming that people are irrational beings, our handy survival instinct will most likely kick in. In any case, the outcome was nowhere near pre-determined.
>Stalin.
Excellent answer. Not just to the above question, but many others. I could go on about how messed up the allies in WWII were, but that would go way off-thread.
> Atomic Bombs and Nuclear Bombs are very different in nature.
what
Unless you want to argue that normal chemical explosives are "atomic", as opposed to the "nuclear" fission and fusion weapons, that's a completely non-sensical statement. Even so, that'd be arguing literal definitions against accepted usage.
If you're calling fission weapons "atmoic" and fusion weapons "nuclear", you're just off your rocker. This would make no sense whatsoever, both linguistically and scientifically. Especially considering that weapons utilizing only one of the two are extremely rare (non-existent in the case of fusion), and most nuclear weapons are a combination of the two.
whats definition of invasion of japan americans use? taking out blacks from africa isnt invasion? or externinating native american is? how about hawaii is?
Then that's something they made up for themselves. Nobody else uses the terms like that. "Atomic weapons" is simply a popular term for the more correct "nuclear weapons" in the rest of the world.
(´－`).。ｏＯ (Why has nobody yet linked Wikipedia?)
Okay.
>The simplest nuclear weapons derive their energy from nuclear fission. A mass of fissile material is rapidly assembled into a critical mass, in which a chain reaction begins and grows exponentially, releasing tremendous amounts of energy. […] These are colloquially known as atomic bombs.
>More advanced nuclear weapons take advantage of nuclear fusion to derive more energy. In such a weapon, the X-ray thermal radiation from a nuclear fission explosion is used to heat and compress a capsule of tritium, deuterium, or lithium, in which fusion occurs, releasing even more energy. These weapons, colloquially known as hydrogen bombs, can be many hundreds of times more powerful than fission weapons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon#Types_of_nuclear_weapons
So an atomic bomb is a type of nuclear bomb. They are not distinct. It is more correct to say that atomic bombs and hydrogen bombs are distinct, but that distinction is not made based on the "megatonnage" of its "detonation" (whatever the hell that means).
Anyway, I don't want to touch the pro/anti-Hiroshima/Nagasaki debate here, but one thing to keep in mind is that the use of conventional weapons such as fire bombs by the Americans caused far much more civilian death and destruction for the Japanese throughout the length of the Pacific war than the nuclear attacks did. The nukes were just quicker and flashier.
You dont know what megatonnage is? Its the force of the explosion. One Kilotonne is the same force as 1000 Tons of Dynamite. And if you dont know what a detonation is... im sorry.
Also note:
> colloquially known as atomic bombs
"Atomic bombs" is just the (now somewhat archaic) everyday name for smaller nuclear weapons. There's no strict definition, it's just something people like to say.
http://japanese.chosun.com/site/data/img_dir/2005/10/28/20051028000081111.jpg
Korean hates American and Japs.
kkkk
Urinara manse-
http://maa999999.hp.infoseek.co.jp/ruri/world_wars_isode2_03.htm
You can see lots of pictures that Korean burn American National flag and insult America.
I'm afraid Americans are arrogant compared to other people.
For what reason?
???
What about the arrogance of the Europeans? Countries like France... who could possibly not even exist today if it weren't for us. Many Western European nations have become extremly arrogant. America's government is in a quite flawed state right now, but give it 3 more years, and we will have a new one. Hopefully better.
My last two cents on the matter is, no, I do not like the way my government is run, Bush is an idiot, and the war was ill planned. But to anyone who insults the soldiers fighting there in Iraq, you are wrong. Those boys didnt have the choice to go to Iraq. They joined the army, the airforce, the marines... To serve this country, and were told to go and fight. They may not have agreed but they went anyway, in service for the country. Those boys need to be brought home now. The war was lost, there is no hope in fixing that hellhole. Just bring our boys home before more have to die.
>What about the arrogance of the Europeans? Countries like France... who could possibly not even exist today if it weren't for us.
What about the arrogance of the Americans? A country that might not even exist were it not for French military support...
Trying to hide behind some past military action when you can't otherwise justify what you're doing is quite pathetic. Not to mention that the half of Europe that the west sold to Stalin don't have a lot of reason to feel thankful, if we are to remember things.
France only sent aid to the colonies in the Revolutionary War because they were on seriously bad terms with England and wanted to see them weakened.
That being said, the U.S. gives buttloads of foriegn aid to everyone who needs it so stfu
> France only sent aid to the colonies in the Revolutionary War because they were on seriously bad terms with England and wanted to see them weakened.
Oh, so if you have an ulterior motive, then your actions don't count at all! It's a good thing the US was completely altruistic in WWII!
> That being said, the U.S. gives buttloads of foriegn aid to everyone who needs it so stfu
Yes, the US stands alone internationally as the sole country to give out foreign aid.
>>128 But you see, without the support, we may not have succeeded in getting our start. France fell to the Nazis. And it was America and Britian who pulled them out of having to deal with the krauts.
>>130 He never said we stand alone as the sole country that gives foreign aid. But we do give the most, to any nation who needs it. When a time of crisis from natural disaster arises. America is always expected to be upfront with the most money to give. Countrys may hate us the day before the distaster. But when it happens, we are expected to help out like close friends. And if we delay, or give a similar amount as other nations gave, well, we are wrong. But when America has a natural disaster, the rest of the world doesnt respond for well over a week! This is the fact that pisses me off. No matter what others say of us, when they are in need, we are expected to help. Would you help someone who insulted and bullied you for years, just because they got into a bind?
Foreign aid per nation and as % of GNI:
http://www.oecd.org/document/7/0,2340,en_2649_34447_35397703_1_1_1_1,00.html
And per capita:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html
Draw your own conclusions, gentlemen.
>>132
About the "natural disaster": wasn't the US government itself that didn't respond for a week, rejecting foreign help? And if you compare the world's reaction to the (predictable) flooding of a city in the richest country on earth to the reaction to an quake that killed 50000+ people, I can't quite see what you're pissed off about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_2005_Kashmir_earthquake
>Would you help someone who insulted and bullied you for years, just because they got into a bind?
"I'm terribly sorry about letting you bleed to death, but your brother said mean things to me"
As >>133 said, foreign countries, including your own arch-enemies like Cuba, were offering aid for Katrina within a day or so of the disaster, and the US rejected it. Then they went on to do nothing themselves for a week. What you said is patently untrue - where on earth did you get those ideas?
>>132
It was a cover. during WWII, the french were malicious. sure, they "surrendered", but when german soldiers would mysteriously die in the hundreds each day, caused by the "accidents" the french were "prone to" do. I hardly would call being killed by a falling flower pot, or being stabbed in the face an "accident"..
>>135
Calling Vichy a "cover" would be... bold.
It also would be an insult to the Resistance.
One can also see that talking about "The French" (or "The Americans" for that matter) is not particularly useful.
>>135 the "Accidents" were doings of the French Resistance. French Citizens acting against their cowardly government to fight the foriegn invaders.
I don't think so many people hate Americans. I would agree however that many people have a disliking towards them. However, there should be some differentiation here, both with Americans and 'the foreign people.'
First, all Americans are different. I for one know many Americans, of whom I admire quite a few. All of these lived abroad from the US, so they knew about different perspectives: The first problem you'll hear about Americans is that they view the world too black and white. Many non-americans do not really meet Americans personally however, they only see some fat tourists with questionable clothing and a distastefull accent (of course I'm talking stereotype here). Also, they see the face of the American government. This face, sorry to say so, can best be described by a disfigured pokerface with a split tongue.
Perhaps that is unfair. It is certainly unfair to the many wonderful American people. But then perhaps, America should look a bit more abroad, and spend more time not on appearing friendly, but actually being friendly. Americans seem to believe that the world is indebted to them for saving the world from the Nazi's. They are, but it is not as if the world hasn't done anything for America in exchange. I might refer to the collapse of the Bretton-Woods system, and how the world saved America's ass. Only my grandmother is really thankful to the US for liberating the Netherlands.
Please do not talk about American aid as if it were so special: compared to other countries such as the Netherlands and Japan, it vanishes. Especially when you look at how it's spent, and where. I am talking about both government and private aid.
By the way, I love the American dream.
I could understand that. Especially with the neo-conservative right, a lot of Americans think that we have saved the world and the rest of the world should kneel and lick their boots or something. (as an example, listen to any right wing talk show host on forgein policy -- or vist a yahoo! chatroom.)
We are also extremely uneducated about the rest of the world. We have no idea who or what is out there. We can't find many countries on a world map. Most travellers don't bother learning any of the language -- not even enough to ask where the bathroom is -- as though the natives of any nation just ought to speak American for no other reason than they are to lazy to learn the native language.
And if the American visitor is a teenager/young adult, you can add 3am parties at youth hostels while others are trying to sleep, drunken puking in random cabs, and general rudeness.
In short, I'd put it 90% to American tourists acting like asses overseas. The politics may play into it somewhat, but I suspect that if Americans would bother learning about the local language and culture before visiting, they'd not be hated so much. It's about respect, and unfortunately too many American travellers have no manners to mind.
Most people here have little reason to hate the USA, they just do because that's the cool thing to do. I don't really get it, but here's what I notice from my perspective:
* Since Bush and 9/11, the USA have become a very easy target. There are hundreds of wrong things that can be pointed out, and the media sees through most of the bullshit of the Bush administration.
* Mixing religion and government makes us think about Islamic dictatorships, a line like "God Bless America" is downright creepy to us.
* Firearms and death penalty. That's just too big of a culture shock.
* People like Michael Moore are regarded as talented journalists.
* People believe a lot of stereotypes about Americans. They don't get what I would call "The American moron's feeling of entitlement"—stupid or bat-shit crazy people talking about their ideas without self-consciousness. It leads us to believe that any American who don't live in Manhattan or San Francisco is an arrogant religious fundamentalist who conceals a gun, sued 47 persons in his lifetime, and home-school his kids to teach them about creationism but won't teach geography at all, and many more stereotypes could be tacked on. Some people here honestly believe that nice and normally intelligent Americans are exceptions.
* Nobody knows the good things about the USA.
* We feel like we are somewhat entitled to keep our culture "pure" from American contamination. For somebody like me who grew up with the Internet, it doesn't make much sense though.
>>141
but 911 is Jisaku-jien. right?
I dont like Americans who always put themselves in the position of a victim. Americans claim every year "remember pearl harbor" when it is 12/8.
And they are always ignorant about Hull note or Flying Tigers.
> Mixing religion and government
The Constitution of Japan, the gift from U.S in 1946, makes our country completely separated between religion and goverment. And lefties sue Prime Minister for visitting a memorial shrine of fallen soldiers of WWII. lol
it's not that Americans don't travel because they are ignorant or do not care. they don't travel because they are too poor or busy to do so.
that's why i have never been outside the country. i do not come from a very poor family but we simply do not have the money to spend on traveling overseas. i think that is true of most middle-class families.
>>141 "Some people here honestly believe that nice and normally intelligent Americans are exceptions."
in many respects that is true.juest seeing some of the younger Americans is enough to dout. although many will grow out of ignorance, the sheer stupidaty of some is amazing. I dont want to say that all Americans are stupid, but many dont know the basics in High School that have been mastered by kids in other countrys their age.
and as for a second language, most kids in high school here in America juest dont care enough to spend the time to learn it! and for this, the ones who do like to learn other languages ARE the exceptions!sorry for the small text
>>144
you cant say someone is ignorant because they dont know other languages. and it is true that alot of teenagers are totally stupid in almost everythign they do. but there is still a huge group of young teens that dont involve themselves in any sort of "stupid" behaviour, and these people seem to go unnoticed by many non-american countries
as it is true in quite a few cases, that high schoolers know less then other countries kids do in elementary school, but what countries are you looking at? japan? poland? germany? countries where its more common to study then to sleep? if by what you mean of "basics" is knowing off the top of your head what the capital of, i dunno, lybia is, then yes, by all means, high schoolers are poorly educated comparitively
ok.. here's the list of reasons from start to end:
1 - america interferes militarily in other nation's at the drop of a hat, and beneath all the "freedom" rhetoric the motivations are usually not benevolent. (furthering any one or combination of: american military presence, natural resource control for large american corporations, economic hegemony.. for large american corporations)
2 - america uses economic hegemony to force policies on other nations which restrict the personal freedoms and economic welfare of their populus. (example: free trade agreements which require export of the DMCA, which is universally loathed world wide)
3 - the majority of americans are utterly ignorant not only of foreign history, language, customs, and geography, but of AMERICAN history, language, customs, and geography.
4 - every election the majority of americans re-elect the same hegemonistic and irresponsible morons, thus signalling to the rest of the world how little they give a crap about it.
5 - the hitherto mentioned morons on the hill (on both sides of the aisle) continue to enact policies which further and further threaten the economic viability of the US, then insist the rest of the world follow them down the toilet.
disclaimer: i'm an american.. and i'm sick of america. the great experiment failed, can we rejoin britain now?
>>146 by basics, i mean basic arithmatic,(like for example
knowing your multapulcation tables) basic english grammer,and
a good foundation of American and world history. i dont mean
in depth studies like one learns in high school, but without
these skills when one gets to high school they have to learn
it again befor they can go into more challanging studies like
phisics(for example). and for what I said about Americans not
learning another language; i was not calling them ignorand so
much as juest lazy. also being someon who studies languages,
i have found that you can better understand someon elses
point of view when you can speek their language(not saying that
you totaly understand).
and the comparison I am making in relation to countrys are
developed countrys like, U.S., Germany, France, Japan, ext.
I understand that not being fluent in a language does not make you stupid. Butif you know that you're going to Thailand, you ought to be able to ask where the bathroom is in Thai, and maybe where to find your hotel. I'm not asking that you be able to recite literature or anything like that. It's really more being prepared than anything.
And as far as ignorance, I believe they did a survey once and 30+ percent of Americans couldn't find Canada on a map. Hello? North? Many don't know who our congressional leaders are, nor who represents our area in congress. And as far as math goes, sooner or later 2+2 will equal 5.
>>149
now wait a sec, isnt that just an opinionated statement? you say that the vast majority of americans dont speak the native language of the place their visiting? are you american? or are you talking on first hand experiance of the maybe, 15 americans youve met in your life who were in fact, unable to speak the native language of your land?
and if youre not american, how can you base your entire opinion on a vast millions of people on a mass amounting to maybe 20?
and by the way you speak, i infer that you are indeed american, as by stating "who represents our area in congress." i stress the "our" so perhaps your experiance derrives from yourself, and the countries youve visited, and have not learned the language of the land. making you the reason why other countries dislike americans.
though now im just throwing punches, i apalogise for that
but seriously, why does everyone have to perfect every area of knowledge? wont it make more sense for people to take one area of expertise and focus mainly on that, adn learning only sub areas that relate to their main focus?
plus america gets tons of tourists and illegal aliens who also refuse to learn english, to this i cannot give a reason why. and i ask why would it make a difference if americans do the same same exact thing as "foreigners" do in our country
> take one area of expertise and focus mainly on that, adn learning only sub areas that relate to their main focus?
Small pet peeve of mine, so bear with me while I go on a tangent:
Increased specialization (and longer education) is inevitable due to the explosion of information. However, having a general idea about many other areas of knowledge is a very good thing to have. Imagine a scenario where no knowledge of the law may hurt you What about mathematics? Psychology? How about the pure sciences, economics, history, literature, philosophy, politics, and so on?
Besides, little is more boring that an person who knows only specialized knowledge. What are you supposed to talk to them about? If everyone keeps further specializing without any other knowledge, we may turn into a splintered society of shallow and easily-manipulated idiot savants. Goody.
PS. Learning other languages is a great way to, uh, partake in the more pleasant parts of native flora and fauna.
Maybe we should ease this discussion by letting the ignorant people out of it. Every country has them and it's just too easy to anounce them to be the cause of discontent about the USA.
Non-Americans tend to have an advantage over Americans because English just happens to be a major language taught in many schools. For example Europeans usually have english lessons so they have less difficulty moving around in America as tourists, than say, American tourists do in Spain, or Germany. I am quite certain that as many Europeans as Americans do not know how to ask where the toilet is in Thai. (Most likely, all of them have a booklet which notes how to ask, though)
On another tack, most likely every country calls other countries arrogant. That is because countries, unlike individuals, behave like toddlers just because it has so many interests to secure on so many fronts, and so many agents to look after those interests. It shouldn't surprise very much that this looks, on average, like selfish and probably inconsistent behaviour.
Considering this, one should be very careful to judge a country to be arrogant.
>>152
when it comes to judging a country i look at actions and
polocies passes in lest say oh the last 10 years. obiously
in the past decade or two America has brought resoltion to many
situations and in some was they faild to do so, but when a
country go to war and spends billions of ower dollers over
sercomstatial and uninvestagated intelagence is enough to be call arrogant.(obiously im talking about the second gulf war!) Im not saying that every reason we went to war for where
illagitamat and unguided reasons but i bellive that ther where allterier motaves. I mean juest the fact that the goverment lyed to us defeats the point of "by the people for the people" and certanly makes me lose fath if not at the goverment than at
the current adminastration!
honesty- I am embarassed to be an American.
At one time it was required in American schools to learn at least two foreign languages. Today, schoolchildren in most of the developed world learn English and a second language of their choice. In America, many high schoolers can't even conjugate a verb in Spanish (that language being the accepted foreign language standard in my observation).
And for the record, yes, not speaking a foreign language is ignorance. Ignorance of those languages.
Riiight. The US and UK defeated Nazi Germany all by themselves. The Soviet war machine drawing closer and closer to Berlin had NOTHING to do with it. If not for the invasion of Normandy, the Red Army would have NEVER gotten to Berlin.
The Germans most CERTAINLY weren't screwed after Stalingrad.
Pull your head out of your ass. If the US hadn't liberated France, France would have liberated itself when the Russians defeated Germany. Don't try to argue that the Soviets wouldn't have been able to take down the Nazis. After Stalingrad the war on the Russian Front became increasingly one-sided.
>>155 well i think that the trning point on the Eastern front was more because of the winters in Russia. if the Americans had not opened another front, come summer ther would be no more russian army(because they wher poorly equiped and facing a vastly superior enimy) and the germans would have an almost free walk to moscow
>>153 why don't you use a spelling-checker before you post. It isn't unintelligble yet, but I can't comment on something this poorly written: The chance that I'm understanding you wrong is too high. Are you really American?
>>157
Yes I am an American. Ok, maybe I was being a little careless and forgot to check my spelling…
My corrected post:
When it comes to judging a country I look at actions and
policies passes in lest say oh the last 10 years. obviously
in the past decade or two America has brought resolution to many
situations and in some was they failed to do so, but when a
country go to war and spends billions of ower dollars over
circumstantial and uninvestigated intelligence is enough to be call arrogant.(obviously I’m talking about the second gulf war!) I’m not saying that every reason we went to war for where
illegitimate and unguided reasons but I believe that there where other motives. I mean just the fact that the government lied to us defeats the point of "by the people for the people" and certainly makes me lose faith if not at the government than at the current administration!
That's what kept them out of Moscow. But the Nazis went around Moscow and continued heading East. Basically, by '43, Stalingrad was the only thing between the Germans and the rest of Russia. The massive German losses there put the Wehrmacht more or less on the defensive for the rest of the war.
i simply hate americans...
>>160
that is a very opinionated statement, but it does not help to reach the question of WHY
I hate Americans because they don't know how to spell or write properly. See >>153,158 for examples.
I don't hate Americans, and I'm Canadian. I'm vastly frustrated by the seeming 'incompetence' sometimes, but I'm highly aware that the media is a skilled manipulator that has "making-you-believe-us" down to an art. I've done my own research (being a high school student taking Sociology, Psychology, Anthropology, Ancient History of Civilizations [up to 16th century], History of the World Relations [going past the 16th century] and World Religions) because I was tired of making relatively trite and audacious comments without real research being done. I'll also ignore my personal experiences , where on two separate occasions I was asked by an American (both were from very opposite parts of the country, I assure) if I may speak "Canadianese" for them.
Really, what it is I've discovered that could be a cause of growing resentment is a few things. First is the treatment of the environment. They refused to join the Kyoto Accord, and recently they've agreed to dig oil up in Alaska, within the boundaries of a wildlife preserve. Many Canadians find it a little distressing for several reasons: i) since our economy is largely supported by natural resources, our government and politics have probably always had more of an environmental edge than America, and therefore it is in our perceptions only ii) criticism of what first nation countries have done to our earth is at an all time high, and we're more sensitive that we would've been in the past, and iii) they view that Americans (who as far as newspapers have said) don't acknowledge the problem, the don't acknowledge their role as part of the cause and they don't seem to care. These reasons as, considering social influences and average information given, truly distresses a people who like to consider themselves as conscious and aware of their environment.
Secondly, compared to Canadian politics, American politics are much more conservative in all aspects and that just doesn't sit well on either side. Canadians passed gay marriages because as far as the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is concerned, there's no reason why they shouldn't have the same ability to marry as other heterosexuals do. (See, Charter 15, "Equality Rights"), [1] ) This just doesn't go over well in America as it's been shown, and quite a few Canadians could see this as inequality and discrimination based on sex, which goes against the Universal Decleration of Human Rights (Article 2).
Thirdly, there is a (perhaps false, perhaps not) feeling of 'bullying' from the Americans, particularly for our natural resources and in particular, lumber. Several of these conflicts have sprung up in recent times, such as Canada's decision to not join the American war and not support it, Canadian prime ministers' (Paul Martin) recent (and blindly idiot) statements against the US, and several others. On the last one, if Americans reading this didn't already know, there was a big tussle over Paul Martin playing the "hate-America" card to try and win votes, basically. Naturally the ambassador of America staying in Canada was very upset and said several choice words of his own, which started a whole flurry of "The terrorists of 9/11 came in through Canada" statements again. It also appeared on several new stations interviewing a few congressmen that one of them made a vague comment of "Canada is the retarded cousin at the family reunion- you just pat him on the head and don't know what to say" (Ottawa Citizen, Front Page, Tue. Dec. 20, 2005)
Basically, it's heightened tension between personal beliefs (lets not forget Canada's commitment to trying to make sure no people of a particular race, religion or sex is offended in any way), politics and the recent strain in relations (America wanting to build a physical barrier between us) that causes people to say "hate". Hate is a strong word, my friends, don't use it lightly, for you wouldn't use "love" so lightly either.
~Don't stop being loving
Shiii
Not to be a stickler but there a few tinsy little mistakes left behind sir!
"When it comes to judging a country I look at actions and
policies passes in lest say oh the last 10 years. "
It should be "policies it passes", and "lest" is a root for the commonly phrased "least" and sadly placing least in your sentance doesn't quite work. It could be "...in the last" for example. Also, "Oh" is not a proper conjuction, it's slang but it's okay to use so long as it's got the grammer to support it, and it would be written as ", oh,".
"obviously in the past decade or two America has brought resolution to many situations and in some was they failed to do so, but when a country go to war and spends billions of ower dollars over circumstantial and uninvestigated intelligence is enough to be call arrogant.(obviously I’m talking about the second gulf war!)"
Firstly "obviously" needs a capital, "...and in some was.." was>ways, "...when a country go" go>goes, "...spends billions of ower" ower>our, "...uninvestiaged intelligence is" is>it's and lastly, "...enough to be call" call>called. Also, it's a run on sentance and should probably have a period in it somewhere.
"I’m not saying that every reason we went to war for where
illegitimate and unguided reasons but I believe that there where other motives. I mean just the fact that the government lied to us defeats the point of "by the people for the people" and certainly makes me lose faith if not at the government than at the current administration!"
Okay, "...we went to war for" between 'war' and 'for' there needs to be 'was'. Before your "but" need a comma. Lastly, proper tense us of "makes me lose faith if not at" at>in, to lose faith in something. But the 'at' in the current administration context is good because is a being of people that truly exist, wheras faith envolves taking a leap of faith above the unprovable. I know politics is frustrating and idiotic at best, but it sadly is provable to work, if we all play by the same rules.
-Love!
Shiii
>>164 colloquial speech differs from place to place, so just because my English is different from yours it is not necessarily incorrect.(My spelling I am sorry for though) I do appreciate the advice however it is unnecessary. Although I don't clame to be an expert in English I am quite capable of correcting my own writing if I should so wish it!
Or if you prefer....mi kann spek encommn spek in my erea dat r encreol of English ant German. dis r enpropr way to spek et abe r sher informal. (a creol)
Ich kann es auf Deutsches oder Italienisch auch sagen
I understand local dialect differs, but that's usually in sentance structure (hence you get everything from Doler to Henry James), but basic rules of grammar are universal to the English language; there's disput because people simply haven't been taught properly. (contrary to popular belief, Grammar's quite easy when someone simply lays down the rules without doing grand explanations!)
I think I also just got that the "lest" part was a really sort of...written slang of "let's say" -> said really fast? I think? I could be wrong, if I am sorry about that. X3.
The rest, as far as I can tell, is just spelling mistakes, keeping it in the right tense, and some grammar...that's about it. There's not to much different in terms of dialet (The choice to use a run on sentance was, sorry about that!) it's just terms of grammar that are universal laws in the English language. Thanks for calling me on some of my mistakes though, I appreciat it!
-Love and love and love is..
Korea is better than US.
Great. Then go live in Korea and enjoy yourself there, OK?
Korea is the greatest nation in the world!
Fuck the nations... burn your flags. Unite for fuck sake!
Enough of this crap... just because you live inside the same limiting borders doesn't mean you are the same.
>>174
No, you are a communist. Read The Communist Manifesto if you don't belive me.
>>175
Actually's he's probably the antichrist. He wants to unite all nations, too. :p
Have you ever tried to actually find out what communism means outside of your head?
>>179
I don't need to find out, because I make my own judgements. I won't blindly follow onesided groups.
You don't need to find out what words actually mean and what people actually think, because you prefer to stick to your own prejudices? OK!
>>181
Groups are prejudiced.. I try to see things from many point of views.
>>184
You're stubborn because you think your values are right. And the same goes for me :). Fuck this :D
because、america is not reliable nation.
For example,Chile 1973 9,11
Russia president Yeltsin .
>>187
No offense meant; but your post literally makes no sense.
I mean that your post is unclear, I don't understand what you're referring to or what point you're making.
Could you please clarify?
In 1973, the US supported a coup against the democratically elected president of Chile and the subsequent installation Pinochet, a military dictator, in his place. The fact that it took place on the 11th of September has led to many exclamations of "lol america."
>>189
Heh, that is amusing; and not very well known, either.
Of course, our goverhment has a history of going in and over throwing any one we don't like down there. I'm surprised Chavez has lasted as long as he has, to be honest.
The beginning of 90's
The United States taught Russia the mistake methods.
Washington consensus →
（The overall liberalization of abolition of economic management by government ）
and large-scale privatization and price
Yeltsin faithfully executes this content, and has ruined the economy of Russia.
GDP gets depressed half of end of Soviet , and does default in 98.
Result
Mafia gains power in unstable Russia.
People became extreme right principles,
and boss of KGB became the president.
A strong anti-American nation was made
BAD END♪
The beginning of 90's
The United States taught Russia the mistake methods.
Washington consensus →
（The overall liberalization of abolition of economic management by government ）
and large-scale privatization and price
Yeltsin faithfully executes this content, and has ruined the economy of Russia.
GDP gets depressed half of end of Soviet , and does default in 98.
Result
Mafia gains power in unstable Russia.
People became extreme right principles,
and boss of KGB became the president.
A strong anti-American nation was made
BAD END♪
>>163
"Canadianese".. lol
Yeah, America has fucked up before, but no one is perfect.
I hate the American government and all its historical variants because of its imperialist motives towards what they consider "capitalism."
Hell, it even disgusts bonafide Major Generals of the Marine Corps.
The majority of my fellow citizens are boorish and arrogant.
I want to move to a happier place.
The United States that criticizes us reflecting even if defeated is
great.
Mexico that doesn't say one the complaint to the rule even if
defeated is great.
The Dominican Republic that doesn't do by one the excuse even if
defeated is great.
Cuba that praises the other party even if defeated is great.
South Korea that it is us is excrements the most in the world true
though it was defeated.
The best hate figure in the world is South Korea!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>197
I live in America. New York City, to be specific.
>>199 The rest of america is NOTHING like New York City; move somewhere else and you'll be happyer.
If you decide to move, just remember that are states are color-coded to show danger level.
>>202 yeah they're coded red and blue.
and here's so many people hate the US, Penis Envy, no seriously.
dude...
why do you hate south korea so much?
I LUV ARMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>1
Perhaps people feel that way because americans can't seem to learn to stay in their own country, politically I mean. Not joining the Kyoto treaty, the CIA kidnapping and torturing people around the world (I read they are holding 10,000 prisoners in secret places around the world), ignoring bioweapons treaty, pissing on the U.N. generally, U.S. ambassador John Bolton to U.N. being a ridiculous joke that wants to destroy UN and just have american dictatorship over the world, etc. The americans' arrogant fascist attitude shows everywhere around the world. The response is justified dislike. Leave the world alone, and you will be left alone.
>>207 The world should learn to respect their betters (US) and give us the adoration that we deserve as their betters and conquerors.
So you think fat, ugly, stupid and uneducated rednecks are better than other people in the world?
the US pays for 90% of United Nations Equipment and operations, on top of that military provideso ver 60,000 VETCAPS,DENTCAPS and MEDCAPS Everyday in almost every Distruaght Country on the face of the planet.
I'm not sayign we should be worshipped liek gods, The US is not Perfect, but we dont get nearly enoguh Credit for the shit we do.
> The US is not Perfect, but we dont get nearly enoguh Credit for the shit we do.
You do. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
What you're seeing are the side-effects of exercising power. Get used to it.
>>189
Dunno if you're a chilean or what, but I am and let's be honest about that as there's a lot of fud around.
1.the US didn't put pinochet in charge of the country, they just suported his operation ideologicaly (does that word exist?) and with a little money, but the cordit (or blame, whatever side of the thing you are) for that should be given to the people of the government agrupation.
2.We have to note that such 'elected president' sucked, literally. He was all 'let's take the properties away from people that have worked for it and give them to the ones that support the party', also, days before pinochet took the power, santiago had no food because a lot of factories closed because of the economic disaster and didn't want to risk their monay and that inflation at the time was so high that money was worthless.
3.All the thing that happened after that are tipical of that kind of government. Dunno if it was right, I'm not here to judge, but that's how these things work.
4.Respecting to 9-11, it was also the date of the first time the mapuches (the natives form Chile) burned down the Spanish colony-city Santiago
"fud" is not an English word. Neither does the abbraviation "FUD" simply mean "misinformation". This is a pretty much a Slashdotter misuse, and should not be used outside of Slashdot if you want to make yourself understood, or be taken seriously.
Look at what Johnny Depp said about America, and you'll understand. I fully agree with him. The prez would rather attack than take a moment to think.
>>214
Think about what you just said. Why should I, a rational human being, give a fuck what some dopey fucking actor has to say about politics?
Because people from countries other than America tend to stereotype Americans as generic, arrogant people who mindlessly wave flags and who join the military so they can get killed by countries they're fighting against. That's a stereotype. In reality, modern America barely has much of its own culture. Things that are barely even cultures, as well as things that are cultures, are considered to need stereotypes by people outside of those cultures.
I consider America boring compared to Japan, from what I've heard about Japan. With things like 2channel being in the media rather than talk about oil prices, celebrities, and the like, less war-mongering, and a westernized but still separate culture, Japan's sure less hatable than America. But both governments are corrupt, though Japan is staying far out of Iraq nowadays and I'm pretty sure it always has.
Why do anime loving Americans assume Japan is some sort of paradise?
I like american comics as japanese manga.
>>215
Ror, says person from the country that elected Reagan.
Why Americans keep using those old troublesome measuring systems like feet, miles, pounds (whatever) while people all over the world are using Metric system? Why Americans call epinephrine as adrenaline? Why Americans call football as soccer? Why ... ... ... ? And why most Americans think that other countries are inferior??? I'd say Americans are just plain arrogant people. They just want to be different from other people in every single fields on earth, regardless what other people think of them. And then you keep asking people why people hate Americans?
>>217
Yes I am. I hate Americans.
Just because a culture evolves differently from yours doesn't mean that we're arrogant, thanks.
Yeah Americans evolves in a way that they want to control everybody under the sun. They can attack any country they wish. They can put any country under trade embargo. They can just claim any country of trying to develop nuclear weapon. They can accuse any country of terrorism. They want to control every single country under the name of democracy.
>>223
You're a moron to blame the actions of the government on the citizens. Sure half of the citizens support every choice by the administration, but there are still the rest of those who do not agree at all, or they agree with very few of the choices. What's worse is the most they can do is just speak out against the choices, maybe email their congressmen, and pray that there will be better presidential choices in the next election. But that's pretty much all there is. Hate the government, hate the nationalists, but don't hate the people that would love to do something about it, but cannot.
>>223
You're a moron to blame the actions of the government on the citizens. Sure half of the citizens support every choice by the administration, but there are still the rest of those who do not agree at all, or they agree with very few of the choices. What's worse is the most they can do is just speak out against the choices, maybe email their congressmen, and pray that there will be better presidential choices in the next election. But that's pretty much all there is. Hate the government, hate the nationalists, but don't hate the people that would love to do something about it, but cannot.
And that, ladies and gentlemen of the forign jury who have never been the the US and only know what they hear on the news, is what is actually going on sinside America.
Half the people is still half the people. So ya, you can blame the people.
Actually, only about 30% of the population support the goverment right now
America = Bush ?
Because they are fat cunts.
i hate american because they are attack iraq for take over oil!!
If all the world hates americans why do we have such an influx of people who want to live here?
If all the world hates americans why do they immediately call for american support anytime ther is even the smallest crisis?
There are enough trouble spots,famine areas, earthquakes, wars, pestilence, tidal waves, fires, epidemics, and overdue library books to last you piss and moaners till next summer
so feel free to pitch in and lend a hand.
Canada got more...
The US is like spiderman, it is a super hero trying to do good for the world, but whatever it does people will hate it just for turning up at the scene. The US doesn't send a task force to stop genocide and people say the US doesn't care. The US sends a task force to stop genocide and people say the US task force is responsible for the genocide.
I'm not saying some people's perspectives are invalid, I'm saying that the US is entitled to a perspective aswell. If the US was really a war mongerring totalitarianism you'd know it.
Ain't it funny how the US guv is so bad at handling basic domestic issues, but so good at orchestrating sinister international conspiracies?
Australia is the kind of country that flips off America in public, but secretly sucks up to them in private.
I don't hate America, but I don't want to be American. I am fine being Australian.
America gives out more international aid than the rest of the world combined. It's called the 'trade deficit', and it reliably creates self reliant people with jobs in impoverished nations the world over.
AMAZING!
>I don't hate America, but I don't want to be American. I am fine being Australian.
that's the spirit! keep up the sucking up!
Trade deficit = Aid? Now that is just delusional. A trade deficit means that the US is receiving real valuable goods from other countries, and giving only currency in return. If our currency gets devalued, or is hit with inflation, we will have gotten something for nothing.
In fact, most of the aid that the US does give out is done for selfish reasons. For example, money that the US gives out to Africa must be spent in the US! So all the foreign aid you hear about actually goes to US corporations. So you can't just go to africa and pay people to build a road. You have to buy the bricks here and ship them, and hire Americans to do the work. By the time it is done, the africans will get maybe a tenth what would have been possible if you just dumped the money out of a plane.
Africa has plenty of food to feed all it's people. Famines are caused when a dictator makes it impossible for an ethnic group to participate in an economy, either by ceasing their assets, or terrorizing them so that they can't farm. Even though their is plenty of food elsewhere in africa, the US sends only US grown food, because it isn't about feeding people, but subsidizing US farms. The influx of food aid depresses local farm prices, and hurts african farms.
Any time you hear Bush talking about "earmarking funds" in response to some crisis or other, most people think he is giving money. He isn't. "Earmarking" means taking existing aid, and putting mandates on what can be done with it. Effectively it means throwing red tape at the problem, and taking money away from other aid initiatives.
BTW, what I wrote above does not apply to private charities.
Cause the United States is the most powerful country in the world and everyone wants to be like them.
I asked my roommate this, he's an international relations major. His answer was simple. We give out aid, then make demands upon the nations we give aid to. Or we inform governments they cannot receive aid until they implement social changes. We would like the world to be a happy democracy with equal representation for all people.
Basically we (americans) are like parents saying "sure I'll give you $100 but I'll tell you what to do". Like how the US continually pressures muslim governments to give equal rights to women. We feel it only natural that women receive equality. Yet that's not their society. In fact it's in their scripture that women are inferior to men. We rude Americans come in and say things like "You need equality for women" and they say "what right do you have to tell us what to do?" Then we threaten to cut off aid/stop trade with them in order to pressure them to implement policy we want them to implement.
It causes a lot of friction with the world and makes people "hate" Americans.
As for being a totalitarian fascist regime, that sounds neat to say but it's foolish, makes you look like an idiot, and opens you up to easy retaliation.
Americans are foolish religious bastards. They don't want to belive that they descend from monkeys. They are still monkeys though.
>>244's friend may have a point there but when You're the only "super-powered" nation with national interests located overseas and when your national security policy is based on a "everyone else are trying to get you" mind set its a little hard for them NOT to feel insecure
I dont hate america
I really hate china
You might want to descend from monkeys.
But all I know is that Odin made us in his image. You are probably a communist, socialist, or some other form of underman.
If you want to descend from an ape, fine.
It does not change the fact that Odin made his chosen out of his image.
Cast off the shackles of Democracy.
test i am 2ch player
>>244
If women's rights were the extent of your meddling, everyone would fucking love the lot of you.
We have no problems with America. America is admirable and nice. The American government on the other hand... The degree we dislike the American people is dependent on how reflective the government is of them. For example, considering you gave Bush a 90 % approval rating back when just for doing something random in response to IX XI, we are a bit wary. On the other hand, we really suck at telling Islam to STFU and behave so we aren't exactly free of blame either.
>>252 I appologize I didn't mean to suggest women's rights were the only extent of our meddling. I gave it only as one example.
>>250
yeti sounds good. Yeti kick ass. Except the ass of disco bandits, whose asses are too moxiously fast to kick.
I think the 90% approval rating had more to do with "Yeah America" knee-jerk patriotism than anything specific Bush did in those days. From my memory, all he did was show up at the rubble and say that he'd protect us. That's not a policy, that's feel-good speechifying.
If Bush was still in the 90's, I'd worry.
Why ppl hate so much americans? Well, that might be 'cause of their attitude over the other countries. Their forcing "be like me" way is just a bullet in the head. They want to be the center of everything and anything. Like a guy said in the thread, using the USA as a center of culture, being the place that have lots of different cultures. NO WAY! Brazil, as a clear example, has LOTS of culture that even 50 states of USA couldn't bring. Originally our language is Portuguese(or Tupi-Guarani, as it was the language of the native people before the colonization), but some places of Brazil speak just german, english, french, spanish, japanese, italian or even some chinese sublanguages. As it might as well been shown: the places here have lots of historical diferences, and, guess what, we still try to learn as many possible around other countries.
Being a Brazilian, I must say the major example: Santos Dummont. OMG, he's the inventor of the plane. The REAL inventor. We just watch the Wright Brothers usurpating his position as the Fathers of Aviation. And I know most of the people that likes a little(just a little) of planes, knows it's true.
As a descendant of japanese, I must say that we don't like either the way that americans respond things. Well, Pearl Harbor attack, you might be imagining. Ok, thousands of deaths. BUT THAT'S AN EXCUSE TO THROW 2 ATOMIC BOMBS INTO TWO INNOCENT CITIES? I'm saying TWO Atomic Bombs. Killing not just soldiers, but women and childrens as well.
Not being enough the Brazilian way of thought and the Japanese way of thought, I show you the human way of thought: do you ever think of how many lives are lost 'cause of Iraq war? Do you ever think how many people die every day defending his ideals, IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY! Yes, the american invasion is killing in the name of american imperialism and capitalism. Why? We sure know: money. The Protocol of Kyoto wasn't signed if wasn't the pression of USA, even knowing that it would doom the human race as it's destroying the Ozone. Why? We SURE know: money. Doing such things would make the country with losses in the economy, so, instead sending food to the poor in Africa, or making invites to Medium-Orient people to live into a Democracy, they find easier to enter into their country, kill their people and their leader and do it as their own way. And instead thinking in the humanity, well, they're just trying to make more money to, I don't know, space travel? It might be, 'cause the way earth is going, it'll have no place to spent the money in some days...
Before someone says that "It's because of the Bush government and shit". That TOTALLY WRONG. Guess why: the government is made by the people that lives in the country. If the Iraq REALLY wanted the Democracy government, they would have, or, at least, asked for help. Brazil made out of the Dictatorial Government, China is, slowing, becoming a Democracy. If the people of a country really wants something, they do, 'cause the Government is what the people of the country wants. Or would a Dictator be what he is without people that's in his side? The humanity didn't went out of the Dark Age?
Big post o/ Reply please =)
whoops =P Pression OVER USA to sign the Protocol of Kyoto
If we had a third atomic bomb we'd probably drop it on Brazil. We're just badass like that.
All the whiners who dog the USA in one breath turn around and come running to us like a baby to its mommy when the shit hits the fan. Brazil? What a joke. Germany? There are still people in that country walking around that voted for Hitler. France? No need to say anything about that besided the fact that we saved all of Europe's ass in 2. Bitch at us for using the Bomb? Well brainscan, there has NEVER been a nation that when at war did not use its most formidable weapon. NOT EVER. Sorry about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was a horrible thing to HAVE to do, but thats what happens to you when you partner yourself with a country that is trying to exterminate an entire people. Genocide is an ugly thing and to be partner to it means you deserve WHATEVER you get. Ozone levels? Talk to me about that when your people stop eating whales, rhino horns and a dozen other endangered species just so ya can get that little dick up easier. Oh I forgot... You are only whaling for scientific reasons...Juts happens to be that most of it ends up on your table. What a joke. Tell ya what... When N Korea starts to really fuck with your homeland why dont we just pull back and let you deal with it since we are all a bunch of idiots.
Dont forget... Bitch all ya want... But dont fuck with the big kid on the block.
Requesting this thread is moved to 4chan. >>262 would be right at home.
Americans are hated because their all either democrats (communists) or republicans (communists). The rest are also communists.
>>262 Lol. So you think US is the big kid on the block now?! HAHAHA It's that attitude that got pplz to not like the US in the first place. That attitude of "We did what you could not and now we have all the right in the world to demand that you be like us, live like us, talk like us and if you dont then I will get the UN to place an embargo on your country, or rally my allies to do that for me, or even failing that go into the country ourselves and take it over in the name of freedom and democracy (sounds just like the old crusaders when they cause death and destruction in the name of God and Christ even though the latter stressed the importance of pacifism)."
Oh, btw >>262. Yeah, US beaten Germany almost single handedly but where was US in the beginning of the war? Sitting there and saying "it's not our war". Pearl Harbour sure woke US up didnt it. Oh, and I was told recently that the nationalist China back then told the US military that Japan was going to bomb PH. What did US do?! Scoffed at nationalist China and saying it could never happen since US' own intelligence didnt catch a wind of it and therefore the 'shitty intelligence bureau' of China who just came out of the Manchu Failure couldn't possibly have the means to find out something that secret. Reminds me of how US thought about 9/11 before it happened.
> US beaten Germany almost single handedly but
I wonder what the Soviets would say?
Thanks for letting us keep most of eastern europe.
In the case of Europeans, it's for the same reason that they've become so anti-semitic.
It's a guilt complex over WWII. They rolled over when Hitler showed up, and now their collective ego is hurting over owing an eternal debt to a upstart colony.
lol. Do you know what happened to the countries the Soviets "liberated"?
So Europe is getting over hitler-guilt by hating Jews? Interesting concept, but I don't see how that works. How do you atone for rolling over for an anti-semite by being anti-semitic? Maybe I just don't get Europe...
The Afghans are pretty much where they are today after we "liberated" them. They live in little dirt houses in a state with a weak currupt government hoping for someone to bring them stability. Unfortunately, just like in the 1980's, guess who's right there ready to take over -- Taliban.
Maybe we should all agree to limit our help to solutions that DON'T involve destabilizing entire regions of the world to remake them in our image. Everybody sucks at that anyway.
>>> US beaten Germany almost single handedly but
>> I wonder what the Soviets would say?
> lol. Do you know what happened to the countries the Soviets "liberated"?
I don't think I even have to explain that your supposed retort here it a complete non-sequitor.
>>270
Irrelevant. I'm just mocking the idea that the US was the prime military player in bringing down the Nazis. The Soviets had the US beat in that department by miles.
"US beaten Germany almost single handedly" is a telling comment on contemporary US education.
Well, we certainly gave the USSR huge amounts of military equipment. I think we made the war much shorter by giving the USSR the material it needed to fight in the short term. The Soviets had lost much of their Ukrainian/Belorussian by the time the USA entered WWII, and were, despite being buoyed by their victorious defense of Moscow, desperately short on ammunition and transport vehicles, not to mention capable interceptors (a role filled rather well by the p-36).
Exuse me, I was referring to the Ukrainian/Belorussian Industrial base and population centers.
However, to suggest that the USA didn't make a war altering contribution is simply untrue; though the war was ultimately decided on the eastern front, the arrival of US and British troops in France, Italy and Africa ensured that the war would not end with a Communist European continent. Besides, the USA was determined to bring the Japanese Empire to its knees, which was definitely easier said than done.
We Koreans Love USA!!!
ｏ＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿＿
/☠ ☠ ☠ ☠ ./〓〓〓〓〓/
/ ☠ ☠ ☠ ☠/〓〓〓〓〓/
/☠ ☠ ☠ ☠./〓〓〓〓〓/
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/ 〓〓〓〓Fuck！.〓〓〓/
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<丶｀∀´> / America will help us!
（ |フ they still think S-Korea is their ally nida.
｜ ｜ ｜ Because Korean love USA nida!
〈＿フ__フ
http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?ei=UTF-8&p=south+korea+fta&c=&fr=&c=news_photos
http://japanese.chosun.com/site/data/img_dir/2006/10/24/200610240000301insert_1.jpg
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/24/business/AS_FIN_SKorea_US_Free_Trade.php
http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/2b/3e/dfbdb50f4ebe7a716f0d5db69b0892c9.jpg
http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/21/e1/3762045c24daa495bd52921d3851c962.jpg
http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/27/4b/54f811ef7184af9bc3a352bc83b23706.jpg
http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/28/28/96261f4b82002d634d904b21b511a86a.jpg
http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/5c/25/f98c722083f301362e3943ffe8489d09.jpg
> However, to suggest that the USA didn't make a war altering contribution is simply untrue
Nobody said otherwise.
I stand by my assertion that the USSR could not have won the war without the US, UK, and Canada.
Also, fuck Korea...
well...
fuck USA
fuck Korea
fuck UK
fuck Africa
fuck Germany
fuck China
fuck Japan
fuck Italy
well, time to go back to Mars... see ya sub-civilizated culture
.(°ぺ°)ノ
Well lets see.
1- because when i walk in america, people stay away from me because i am middle eastern.
2- In the airport, the security keeps staring at me.
3- My cousin was arrested because he failed to voluntery get him self finger printed when leaving USA, he was not notified of this ridiculus law and the guard told him that no where in hell he would let him attend his classes.
4- If Tabas operation by amercians was success full , chances are that i was going to die.
5- in the iran-iraq war America supported the war and saddam, and one of saddam's rockets hit one street away from my home, a kilometer the other way and i was dead.
6- because now they go in middle east and claim to be the saviour angels while its a fucking lie.
7- because if they attack iran my best friend who is a good person, but belives in all that protect your land and religion crap is going to grab a AK47 and defend himself.
8- because if they attack iran while i'm in there i wont be able to get out, international flights will be canceled and i will miss my classes.
9- because americans are the most ignorant people next to japanese when it comes to knowing about foriegn culutures and have misconceptions and judje others when they don't have a fucking clue.
10- because americans are the most racist people i have ever meet.
oh , and i am a dual citizen, i have iranian and american passport . i have lived 3 years in USA, 11 years in Iran, 5 years in canada.
Too bad for you. Just drop Islam and we won't have a problem (Zoroaster? Who's That?)
Just remember, we are fighting on behalf of the Western World, and we realize that wherever someone screams, "Allahu Akhbar", a jew, christian, or innocent muslim is murdered. Yes, it is an unfortunate coincidence that most muslims are identifiable by their skin color, but these things have much more to do with religion than race. Say the magic words, "I renounce Islam", and you will see peoples attitudes towards you change dramatically.
>>284 because you are middle eastern and that can't be blamed
Kindly take George Bush's dick out of your mouth. We can't understand what you're saying.
And another thing, Islam is not the borg. They don't all agree on everything, and not every muslim is connected to al-qaida or other terrorist groups. They aren't a hive mind. Muslims should be treated as individuals, according to how each one behaves.
If >>285 is a moderate muslim who wants to live in peace, let him, and let him worship the way he chooses (1st amendment? what's that?). If >>285 goes to terrorist training camps and plans attacks, then arrest him for being a terrorist -- judge him on behavior, not simply that he reads the Qu'ran instead of the King James Bible.
>>288
Let's get one thing straight; I don't like my president. I never have, and I never will. And another thing; I am primarily secular. Muslims are predisposed to violence, because it is sanctioned not just by their holy books, Al-Qu'Ran and the Hadith, but also because of their religious leaders. The reason Christians are tamer is due to the fact that their religious leaders use the gospel as the primary theological authority, not the Old Testament (which is almost as bad as the Qu'ran).
Do I have any Idea how "muslim" he is? No, not really. However, I do recognize that his religion will get him in trouble in the West, because, frankly, his religion (in its purest form) is largely incompatible with western culture, morally and even economically. That is what I am saying. We should not accomodate them, they should accomodate us.
Yes, but your stated answer is "Don't be muslim". I don't care what a person's religion is, and being muslim is not in and of itself a crime. Secondly, unless >>285 is supportive of jihad, he isn't responsible for every act committed in the name of islam. Unless of course, you want to blame Christians for abortion clinic bombings, Westboro Baptist's habit of protesting millitary funerals, the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda, and the priests that molest children.
Collective guilt is a crock of shit. People have different opinions on just about any issue, even in religion. For some, they've made it a personal fight to end Jihad and get bin Laden. Judge a man based on what he himself believes and does, not based on what "his people" believe.
As to which religions are compatable with democracy -- none that I'm aware of are. Every one of them posits a theological authority, and none of them even hint at the idea that leaders should be elected, or that the state should not promote the religion. State Shinto made the emperor God himself, Israeli kings were essentially directly chosen by God, Rome had emperor worship as well. The Dalai Lamas, up until China took over, ruled with an iron fist -- slavery was legal, and the monks lived pretty much on the backs of the peasents.
We're a secular centrist democracy despite religion, not because of it.
What makes moslems (as a whole) more dangerous is their degree of religious conciousness, which pretty much overrides everything they do. I'm not saying that there aren't good muslims, I'm saying they're good in spite of being muslim. Secularism always has a way of superceding religion morally, because secularism takes that which is positive from judeo-christian civilization, and distills it into something largely divorced from "heavenly affairs".
>>284 here
Sorry for the long post, please either don’t ready any of it, or read all of it.
So you are telling me to throw my ideals, the culture that i was raised up and all that came with it away? What do I put there instead? Fill my head with hot air and convert to Neon Genesis Evangelism or something? What do i celebrate? Hanukah? charismas? the birth of G.W bush? Yea we do have people in Iran celebrating Christmas and they are non Christians. When I met with them, most of them had fucking identity crisis and had the imagery of USA being the promise land, like some ppl/losers in USA have from Japan.
In middles east culture, history and land is valued. You can't just sit there on your ass in a developed country and order the struggling ones in Iran to throw away their heritage because western media blamed Islam for terrorism and saw it as a threat. God damn it, we LIVE in middle east, we don't walk around with AK47s killing each other on top of camels and reading Quran out loud, WE LIVE, as we go in a car in mornings, then to work , then back to home with money and buy stuff with it.
I have read the Quran and it never said anything about bombing random people. it did how ever say not to have seckz until night in Ramadan.
"As to which religions are compatable with democracy -- none that I'm aware of are"
strongely agreed, Iran is a sad example of how a country would turn out when you try to run it on religion, instead of adapting a religion to run under a government.
oh and above post is not directed to a specific poster on this board, just the general attitude to middle easterns that pisses me off.
You don't need to let any religion govern your life.
By the way, STOP BAGGING ON THE USA. We are in the middle of a war, and we're rather stressed out right now. Hold all questions until the end, please.
Well, you don't need to let anything rule over your life. But just because a person happens to believe strongly in God doesn't automatically make him a threat to you.
I believe in Tenrikyo. I believe it's the religion from God. You get to believe in whatever you like. My belief is that God will bring you to the right path, and that He would probably rather have you as a friend than a grovelling servent. And as long as everyone can worship in peace, religion, any religion, is fine with me. I don't like either extreme -- I don't like it when people tell me I'm evil for not believing in their God, but I also don't like the secularists who try to tell people that they shouldn't act religious in public.
I really wish I knew more about the middle east. It's hard to get a clear picture of what the average muslim thinks about all the stuff going on.
Many people hate america?
That is vicious propaganda of commie.
See over all the commie and libertalian supported by commy.
Are they really representatives of those country?
Attention!
Commy is making vicious propaganda now!
Attention!
Commy is supporting rudeness people in this world!
North Korea thinks that I sell a nuclear weapon to Islam radical group from lack of funds at last
People don't necessarily hate America/Americans; more likely, they simply hate USA foreign policy.
Once the USA stops shoving their "might is right" attitude down the rest of our throats, and start taking account of the sensibilities of other nations, then, the rest of the world might see the US government in a better light.
The us government wants to be in control of the strongest country in the world and so does every other countries rulers. However the memo that the people in the white house did not seem to get was strength is nothing without the notion of when and how to use it.
Anyone can shoot a gun and kill but a sharpshooter can disarm their opponent without killing them. If we want to prove that we are the best we can have no more hiroshima's no more iraq wars other wise we will have given plenty of reasons of others to hate us. Americans are hated like a bully in its schools we have power , are not afraid to use it and we DO NOT THINK ABOUT IT !! Like the bully in the school all we do is destroy without making an scrap of mercy apparent. I just wonder what will happen when those who hate us try to gang up and overpower the world's bully? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I don't think anyone can rely their counry's image from their history textbooks. Many(if not all) history textbooks are politically motivated. For America, you can read "Lies My Teacher Told Me". Woodrow Wilson is not what the US History described. I'm sure there are books about other countries and their twisted view about their own history.
>>300 very true. Unfortunately, most people in all countries seem not to know very much about history, and what they do know tends to be warped. I think most Americans I could talk to seem to think that America invented freedom and was founded on principles from God and the Bible. I've never heard it mentioned in a textbook that almost all of the "Founding Fathers" belonged to the Freemasons and were heavily influenced by the lodge organization.
The scary thing about the US is that most ignorant parts of the country are growing quickly. Which is increasing the influence of ... I hate to use this term, but ... "Evangelical Conservatives", basically more or less people who try to fit anything in a pre-conceived notion of how the world works. And the words of people like Pat Robertson, who is probably schizophrenic, are trusted to some degree by a lot of these people, just because he's a "Born-Again Christian". I sometimes feel that 11 September and Iraq were a result of an ignorance that is heavily influenced by religion and a misleading view of history.
strictly speaking, i dont hate americans, but i do hate america.
i hate america because they always pretend to fight for justice but in the reality, most of the time, they just fight for their own benefit and make other countries get involved in things for americas benefit.
they never do the justice. what they do is just screwing up things.
i admit that america is the biggest country in the world, but they should fight for justice rather than benefit.
Genocide, civil war and neo-imperialism.
E/O/T
Both of you are very wrong. We fight because there are those who will not leave us alone. We fight because the other great powers are too cowardly to solve the problems that they started (i.e. Francophone Africa, Middle East, Indonesia, Pakistan). What is your definition of justice? Ponderous international courts, or laser-guided bombs? I tend to prefer force as an application of justice, it carries much more meaning than some Hague beaureaucrat droning on about 'multilateral consensus'. Genocide? Name one fucking instance in which we have systematically murdered an entire race or ethnic group. "Neo-Imperialism"? Now you're getting way out there. The United States has, historically, gone overseas to eliminate threats to its interests. Indochina? We saw it as just another part of the cold war. Korea? same thing. We had a goal then, to contain and weaken communism. In the end we simply built up our military to the point of Soviet Economic, and therefore political, collapse. Going overseas helped our cause, but cultivating our allies proved more important. This battle is being replaced with the war on terror. Radical Islam poses a threat to not only the United States, but much of the European Continent. Benjamin Franklin said it best, "We can hang together, or hang separately".
>>Name one fucking instance in which we have systematically murdered an entire race or ethnic group.
The native american population?
>>What is your definition of justice? Ponderous international courts, or laser-guided bombs?
The one who can use more violence is automatically right? If you can't realize the idiocy of this way of thinking there is really no helping you.
>>Radical Islam poses a threat to not only the United States, but much of the European Continent.
That's only because they fight ami/israeli imperialism. Without israel and usa, those "terrorists" would stay in their own country. You can't be stupid enough to believe that if you hit a bee hive that you won't get stung.
>>Benjamin Franklin said it best, "We can hang together, or hang separately".
This is israel's and usa's war for world domination(which the islam opposes, so those countries are the prime targets), other countries only join because they have corrupted scum as leaders like Merkel or Blair, while most of the population opposes the american/israeli war mongering.
> We fight because there are those who will not leave us alone.
and
> The United States has, historically, gone overseas to eliminate threats to its interests.
equals?
equals that reading this thread is a warm and fuzzy reminder and reassurance as to my views and firm beliefs concerning a certain nation.
>>The native american population?
HAHAHAHAHA you are totally right.
>>That's only because they fight ami/israeli imperialism. Without israel and usa, those "terrorists" would stay in their own country. You can't be stupid enough to believe that if you hit a bee hive that you won't get stung.
... You are totally wrong. The way my country has responded to the terrorist threat has been boneheaded, insensitive, feckless and ineffective (largely due to President ManChild and his network of corrupt cronies). However, your argument is the same one that kept us out of WWII until the Japanese bombed pearl harbor. If it hadn't been for that, we might have waited until it was too late, and we'd be speaking German.
The wahabists are nutfuck crazy and want to impose their worldview on every living human. If they actually succeeded in establishing a caliphate, it wouldn't be too long before the privileged few Arab potentates in the new Islamic Nation nuked Washington, New York, Atlanta, and the rest of the eastern seaboard as a prelude to WWIII.
>>308
[The wahabists are nutfuck crazy]
true. they did/do too much.
[want to impose their worldview on every living human]
this sounds more like america. at least most of the pple in the world(except americans, of course) see this way.
by the way, why r they still staying in iraq? i thought america attacked iraq in the cause of iraqs possession of nuclear weapons. and where r the weapons?
and, how many innocent pple did america kill? by the way, did u know that right after WW2 finished, american troops went ashore at Yokohama and raped 3000 women within one day? is this also japanese pples fault because they attacked perl horbor??
why america is right and iraq is wrong? why atomic bombs r ok but not perl harbor? i know the answer. because america won the war, and thats all. im not saying bombing on perl harbor is ok, it was very wrong too. but the fact is that thousands of innocent japanese were killed and a lot of pple are STILL suffering. one of my japanese friends(girl) whose age is 26 now can never have a kid because of a radiation disease(her mother was living in Hiroshima).
iraq thing is the same. whatever the reason america fight for, a lot of innocent guys, womens and kids r killed. i feel sorry for americans(and their families) who were killed by terrorists, but u can never justify urselves killing pple as well as u never justify them killing ur own pple. "u have families but they also have families"
U.S. currently holds about 10,000 nuclear warheads, with various means to deploy them; such as the Peacekeeper missle, capable of carrying 10 warheads each aiming at a specific target. Yet the U.S. insist on the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty strictly imposed on other countries, evident in the recent N. Korea and Iran ruckus.
Perhaps it is not much of the citizens that should be hated, but rather the United States administration that should be blamed; although I admit there are quite a lot of idiots that supports the Administration.
Our government blows up anything it wants according to personal agendas, religion, and money. Even we hate our government and our government represents us so i m guessing that people think we are like the government.
>>310
If the US wants to keep nuclear weapons to themselves, that's fine by me. Considering what nukes are capable of, the fewer who have them, the better.
Nuclear weaponry does not give absolute power.
Even so, I'd take absolute power over MAD. Extinction is a pandora's box that doesn't contain any hope.
I hate America because they created a monster they could not control; Osama bin Laden.
I hate America because of it's a country of hypocrites.
They call their 2 party republic a "democracy" and try to force that "democracy" on the rest of the world.
US destroys a government, and enforce a new "democratic" government that supports US. If the election doesn't elect a leader that favors the US, pull it down and bring up one that does. Afterwards, anything screws up, blame the new government and its citizens.
And accuse countries of being evil or tyrannical.
And glorify their own policy and philosophy.
If that's the way they do things...
AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!
I love this song lol.
you all are realy crazy?
i dont know realy what your wrong is with usa
They reflects on the thing made 60 years ago and are no squids. Japan in the Pacific War helped independence in confrontation Asia the war of aggression that the United States had begun. Asia was opened from the colony of Europe and America powers. However, victor's judgment started by the tear Far East trial in Japan.
A similar trial was developed in Iraq even 60 just now in year. Isn't such selfish posture alone a cause of your doubt?
The country that put out the hand to Japan after all is probably ruined. Country Japan cheers of. If a fabrication advertisement alone without evidence either is done, women sent to front-line etc. and will encounter painful eyes as for Chinese though they are. I do not think the United States to be bad very much. I want you to hold out as a flag of freedom. It is China and Korea in the anti-day country that crushes.
...because you're all entitlement whores.
Every where you go, you speak with your shitty arsed, loud drawly accent complaining about everything (and how it's not like the US), and so people give you stuff just so you'll shut the fuck up, thus causing resentment.
You're stupid as fuck. You can't tell me the capital of Australia, or point out the flag of Cyprus for me without resorting to google.
And yet the type of lifestyles that you lead are slowing taking over the way our country lives it's lives and that just pisses me off.
Because of this:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm
>>326
Sydney?
And can you draw the flag of Uzbekistan for me? I can pull obscure countries out of my ass too.
>>329
Queensland
Cyprus' flag has a map of cyprus island on it.
Uzbeckistans' flag is yellow on top and blue on the bottom.
Now what is the capital of Zimbabwe?
Is there any point to running a geography quiz when the unrestricted knowledge of the Internet is at your fingertips? Unless you edit the Wikipedia article, that is.
Dude, Cyprus's flag has GOT to be the ugliest yet.
I remembered that flag because of how fucking fugly it is.
I mean, the Cyprians really ran out of ideas there didn't they? I hope for their own honor, Turkey came up with that flag for them, and they just didn't bother changing it.
>>332
Don't see what your getting at, there are far uglier flags (Seychelles, South Africa), far busier flags (British Indian Ocean Territory, USA), and far simpler flags (in which nothing compares to Libya).
Next to any of those, it's a work of art. What's the deal?
>>334
My argument is moot? I made no argument, I merely pointed out the pointlessness of trying to stump people on geography when you can't see them cheating. You might be confusing me with another poster.
> learning about other cultures from your media?
what?
As a British American: I don't think it looks that bad...
As a Greek Cypriot: Our flag is better than most countries. We actually have something meaningful, other than random colours and stripes.
Actually, I truthefully don't care. But FYI, it wasn't us who came up with the flag. And really, is it that ugly? I've kind of grown up seeing it, so it's like a hairy uncle to me. I don't even notice it.
Hahaha, I was really just making fun of Cyprus for its flag, it's not that bad. I just think it's a little corny to have a little picture of your country for your flag, like you couldn't think of anything else.
>>339
It's still more thoughtful than Libya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_Libya.svg
Libya's flag is profound.
Thing is, America has done some pretty badass shit in the past. Take a look at their space program for example. Nevermind the moon landing, the entire world watched as the space shuttle Challenger exploded, yet the country got up, dusted itself off and kept its space program going. Think about it, that kind of disaster would have put an end to most other space programs.
A lot of the hatred and criticism aimed at the US during the 50s-80s era was more teasing/love hate sort of thing. Because even when the US was down, it was still way ahead of everyone else. But these days? The US is a shadow of its former self. It continues to sink itself further and further into endless debt to pursue pointless wars against anyone who so much as gives it or its friend Isreal the wrong look. This wouldn't be such a problem if the world economy wasn't so reliant upon the US stock market. If it sinks, you can bet it will take a hell of a lot of other countries with it. And it's the fiscal irresponcibility of Americans, (just look a the credit card debt) combine with the fact that they voted for President Monkey Boy not once, but TWICE. And they continue with the "Zomg Terrorist" witchhunt at the cost of other country's rights and privacy. They aren't the tough but cool dude anymore, now they're just drunken frat boys who have too much money, power, and fear.
The fact that America is so paranoid of even the centre right that they will call them far left is a surprise that you would have a hard time finding in any other country. But that is not important.
America has for a long time acted like they can police the world. That it is their right to involve themselves in other countrys business and ALWAYS for their own benfit. The clear arrogent nature of America and their controversial involvment with Isreal and removal of democratic governments while they act to the world that they were completly innocent infuriates a lot of people. America plays dirty yet they are always the first to condemn others (except Suadi Araibia for obvious reasons). This pure selfish attitude is Imperialsitc in appearance and shows how dishonest America is and why I wouldnt trust them for a second on anything
They say the past should be left behind, but do we really do that, we need to understand the past in order to live in the futur, unless Americas power is not devided in equal parts among the rest of the world they will always try and dominate the world, The American Goverment is pathetic, they dont have any selfrespect and respect for their nation.. Everything they do is for their own benefit and taht will always stay that way... But it will not last long every dog has its day and America is over due... A great concurer shall come and cripple the goverment...
America is based on lies, Pearl Habour, the moon landing, AIDS, Iraq, The world wars. all lies covered up by the goverment in order to achieve the world power, But how long can a lie last...
I wish those americans that conspire the world a slow and painfull death... (Not the Inoncent Americans)
of course people hate americans even some americans hate themselves for being of it. obviously now even more reasons to hate them. However only americans really know of hate so much for they are american. The country of hate, greed, murder, robbery and spreading it all over the world free. what the hell ever. nobody wants american ways and death by usa for nothing! Keep the hate most americans are the only true haters so maybe one day finally they will hate themselves if they ever get a freaking bring.
http://www.iraqvideos.net there are many reasons and a few more there
Obviously Japanese Red Army Was Government's Agents
http://book.geocities.jp/japans_conspiracy/01/p007.html#page98
In consideration of the result of their terrorism, final beneficiary has turned out to be the Japanese government and the imperial clan.
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