Muslims in the United States have proven themselves to be loyal to their country and politically moderate. But around the world, especially in Europe, Islam is increasingly viewed as a danger, and young Muslims as unpatriotic. Is this an appropriate bias in dangerous times, or is it bigotry? And what makes the United States different?
Btw, Pearl harbor attack is an act of invasion which I think not in the minds of the muslims (for wat I see) unless we really do somthing like Hiroshima, well they might be do that..
i dont mean to argue and i know christianity did this too but didn't islam spread the most because its followers basically went around killing and conquering everybody around them >_>
I heard tat in the reality, the prophet (Muhammad in this case) only dreamed about conquering countries From Turkey to Iran but I never heard about attacking European countries and Asia.
Seems that the Muslims have their own conspiracy against their own faith....
Sumtimes I wonder do they REALLY worships their god or their own DESIRE???
Unless they REALLY want another Jerusalem Wall, but this time is THEM separated to the rest of the world........
Another Alexander Iron Wall??? Or maybe like The Great Wall of China???
Heh.........
> 2, should we have responded to the attack on Pearl Harbor by finding "moderate Shinto clerics" and sending them to Japan?
you see, >>99, at that time there was a state called Great Imperial Japan which held sovereignty over the islands of Japan, Korea, much of China, SE Asia, and the Pacific. Because this state committed an act of war against the United States, casus belli was established and shortly after war was declared. Japan and her allies had control over vast swaths of territory and strong militaries.
by contrast, muslims of the plane hijacking variety do not have a state, do not have territory, do not have militaries. they cannot be conquered by lengthy naval warfare and small territorial gains finalized in tremendous bombing sprees meant to cripple their capacity to wage warfare and then occupied for a while. they cannot be conquered. they can be eliminated or converted. they cannot be conquered.
>>105
Converted?? Unless they feel oppressed in their own might be but u know the power of faith can do lots of things and seriously after wat happened in Iraq, current Iranian nuclear situation, and most popular- Palestine issue, I don't believe they can take a single word from us....
Ok, might be some of it but seriously only few will moved.....
by converted , all that is meeant is to get more moderate muslim clerics out there. the reason we dont know about them is because they arent declarring fatwas against the west but they exist. by backing them and providing financial aid to groups following them, trust me, you can get them to listen. we would have to get our military bases the fuck out of the middle east but at this rtate we wont be able to maintain them anyways.
I remember a time during Bill Clinton's era when moderates were slowly but very, very surely taking over Iran's government. But moderates I mean people who didn't buy into the theocracy and who were interested to increase relations with the rest of the world.
Today there aren't any visible ones left. Instead there are known murderers (AKA Ahmadinejad) screaming out some hilariously batshit things while the theocracy has very effectively reasserted control.
Now, why do you think that is? What changed in the past decade? What could it possibly be?
Seems like the solution is simple enough. If you stop stirring a beehive the bees eventually get bored and get back to living their lives, that religious nut on the corner be damned.
>>105
And there was once a state called the Caliphate, whose remnant bits and pieces are at war with the rest of the human race from Nigeria all the way to the Phillipines.
"Al-Qaeda" is only a useful label if you understand that it is not the actions of a few dozen. It is the id of the old Caliphate, expressed whenever there is another large-scale terrorist attack against Americans and a billion Moslems cheer and dance in the streets and burn American flags. If this is not a clear and concise declaration of war, what is it? If it is not casus belli when Arab and Moslem governmental intelligence agencies from Libya to Syria to Iran to the former Iraq to Pakistan to Saudi Arabia spy on the US and give intelligence, money and arms to them, whether they are calling themselves "Al-Qaeda" or "Hezbollah" or "Taliban" or "The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine" or "Hamas" or "Al-Fatah" or "Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade," what is it?
>>108
It is time for the West to stop worrying about what the deathcultists will do. It is time for the deathcultists to begin worrying about what the West will do.
Al-Qaeda tried to destroy the Twin Towers in NYC in 1993 and again, after eight years of planning, in 2001. This despite Clinton's attempts to be all things to all people around the world.
If there is a nest of hornets, you do not worry about why they are so hostile, nor live in fear of provoking them, nor lie awake at night consumed with guilt and blaming yourself for their hatred of you. You kill every one you see and burn the nest wherever you find it. You exterminate them. And better to do it now than in our children's time.
People from Nigeria to Darfur to Israel to India to Thailand to the Phillipines are suffering right now because of our vacillation and lack of resolve. It is time to end this.
> It is time for the deathcultists to begin worrying about what the West will do.
Why do they have to worry? Now they have an endless stream of revenge-hungry young men jacked up on testosterone who would love nothing more than to attack The Clear And Present Enemy.
Cause and effect, hello? If I shoot up some of your family, regarless of your reasons, what do you think my reaction will be?
> It is time to end this.
The deluded White Man's Burden in a more modern form. Remember, them niggers need you to bring them Civilization!
> If I shoot up some of your family, regardless of my reasons, what do you think your reaction will be?
fix'd
>>110
Because Japan did in 1945, yes?
I don't care what they do or don't need, as long as I can ignore them.
America doesn't want to conquer the world. America wants to be able to ignore the world. We don't care what they need, or want. We don't care whether they love us or hate us--but if they raise a hand against us we are obligated to teach them to fear us. If they prove themselves ineducable, then they're going to have to join the dinosaurs as one of Mother Nature's little mistakes.
"America doesn't want to conquer the world. America wants to be able to ignore the world."
Fail. The Middle East wasn't radicalized until Britian - and later, the USA- went into their land and started fucking with their land. You want to be able to ignore them? Then get all your troops on planes, dismantle your military bases in their land, and come home. Thats what canada has done all these years and we made fun of them for it. Sad true, however, is that the only foreign terrorists (foreign to canada) they have ever found in Canada were terrorist cells perparing to attack who??? AMERICA. And that only happened once Canada elected Stephen Harper (bush puppet like tony blair was) and started building their military and comitting more troops to our fuckups in the middle east. All of a sudden, Canada appeared on the radar.
America does not want to be ignored. It wants to go back to the early nineties- a time when the only competing global super power (USSR) had collapsed and we were the head Nigger in Charge. We want to go into other people's house and tell them how to do shit.
"I don't care what they do or don't need, as long as I can ignore them."
This makes you a shitty person.
>>109
You fail because you assume that there is one massive muslim conspiracy against america. your arguement need a SHIT TON more tin foil. It may require the full annual ouput of reynolds wrap foil.
Many of the nations you just named have been on opposing sides of the whole shia-sunni muslim divide that has had these fuckers fighting for 600 years.
Iran was former Iraq's biggest nemesis in the region, on a scale akin to USA vs USSR.
Syria doesn't particularly care for Iran but they work together for their common enemy: Israel.
Saudi is our ally and doesn't really care about spreading islam (many clerics there do but not the government); They are just fine making money off of us (what is it now, $4.35 a gallon?)
Libya isn't an issue anymore. They were a problem back in the 80's and 90's but we scared Kidafi shitless so he stuck the cock back in his mouth and shut the fuck up.
>>113 (continued)
Pakistan could give 3 shits about us. In fact, recently their military dictatorship (not theocracy) started liking us because we started backing them. Pakistan is too busy trying to get rid of Pervez Musharaf and his regime when they are not too busy fighting India for Kashmere.
None of the countries you mentioned use their spy networks on america. The use them on Israel, to kidnap high profile people so they can trade them for their troops' freedom. Most of those Billion Muslims do not dance and cheer when our building blow up because they don't find out till much later as they dont have electricity, let alone TV. When they do, its usually because its out mega corps that financially ass rape their population by exploiting them, making it so that they ONLY available jobs where they live have 16 hour work shifts at less than a dollar a day and where they live, your companies listen to your government so America must be allowing this. If your kid comes and kicks in my door and shit on my carpet, you better believe im gonna have Beef with YOU if you dont stop him. Thats how the average muslim who lives in crushing poverty, in part because of american interests and companies, feels about us.
As for all of those muslim organisations, many of those are terorist groups but most only hate (say this with me now) ISRAEL. I have no problem withthe jews but when did JewLand become the 51st state of the USA. They can take care of them selves. They beat the crap out of 6 arab nations in a week. they dont need us to get involved. Hezbolla isn't even a terrorist group. We are one of few countries that this they are. They are an insurgent group that has been trying to get israel out of Lebanese land that Israel occupied dure that 7 day war. They only attack Israel unless outsiders try to aid israel or get in the crossfire. Incidentally, they also provide healthcare, schools and soup kitchens to the southern half of lebanon, which their government lacks the capacity to do. The taliban was not a terrorist organization but they did harbor Bin laden and they deserve to get shot up. The taliban is a theocratic regime that ruled afghanistan. and yes, we were right to kick their ass and shoulda stayed in afghanistan to finish the job, rather than going off to Iraq and letting the taliban regroup. Al Fatah WAS Arafats shitty group. Now, they are the moderates who israel actually liked. they havent dont shit in years. Its not the same group. Thats like say that the democrats of today were the democtrats of the early 1800 (pro tip: the democrats became the republican party in the 1850s).Hamas, only cares about destroying israel.
So, who is Really out to get America in the Muslim world? Bin laden. thats it. the problem is we fail so hard we cant find a 6 foot tall, 52 year old arab on dialysis in the desert with all our fucking spy satelites. Its retarded. Al Qaeda is the Great Muslim Threat.Thats it.
Iran isnt a problem because Ahmadinejad cant do shit unless Ayatollah Khamenei (the Supreme Leader of Iran, aka Ahmadinejad's boss) says its ok and so far, he thinks Ahmadinejad is a fuck up.
tl;dr
> America doesn't want to conquer the world.
Hahaha. Holy fuck.
Maybe you don't, but US leaders have a different agenda. Why do you think the US has a history of propping up dictatorships and destroying small democracies it didn't agree with?
The US is able to spend like no tomorrow because it was a master at economic warfare and cloak&dagger tactics to get favourable outcomes on foreign soil. Witness the brilliant touch of tying petroleum to the US dollar, which allows the US to export its inflation to everyone else.
The words spoken and the actions taken are very different here. Of course I won't blame you, if you're a US citizen, because you're also a victim of this apparatus (just less so).
> If they prove themselves ineducable, then they're going to have to join the dinosaurs as one of Mother Nature's little mistakes.
Wow. Us versus Them. Those Evil Inhuman bastards. You're a either a psychopath or a sheep (or both).
>>115
They started this war, not us. But we have the means to end it here and now. It is incumbent upon them to prove that they are worthy of mercy.
It is later than you think.
>>113
History demonstrates that surrender and paying the Dangeld are not viable strategies in the long run.
If I may borrow a quotation, we are not a numerous people, and no one loves us. 'Twas ever thus.
Um, no. "They" didn't start it. We did. We went into their land and started carving it up the wat we saw fit. We also did shit like set up the sha in iran (a bastard dictator so bad that the nutbad the call a president is actually an improvement) so we could preassure iraq to give us oil. When the Ayatollah overthrew the sha, we help Saddam Hussein get in power. You see how WE started it. We fuck with them all the time. we back murderous dictators in the name of "economy".
What's worse: when one of our bombers - with their laser guided technology on planes that cost millions of dollars each- drop million dollar bombs on schools and housing "by accident (implying either the pilot was a dick or an incompetent moron) we call it "collateral damage" and move on. Shit like that pisses people off. Then Some butthurt arab, who is jealous because his country asked the US to back them up militarily instead of stead of his paramilitary group, decides to recrit from the masses that we have been fucking over. He also notices they share his religion and he uses this fact to convince them that killing Americans is ok. Thus, we have alqaeda. It isnt all of the middle east. It certainly isnt all muslims. and we cant bomb them because they dont have 1 country. They live all over the world. unless you suggest bombing the whole world.
Um, people loved us until Teddy rosevelt decided it would be a good idea to start fucking with people and break with a century-old policy of "trade with others and mind your business (read isolationism aka what Canada and switzerland do) and opted for imperialism (remember panama?). we are also quite numerous. almost 400 Million people served, sir. If by "paying the Dangled" you are reffering to proxy warfair and control, you are wrong. having proxies doing all the unfavorable chores for a price was key to every great empire. Name one empire that succeeded without doing this
> Name one empire that succeeded without doing this
My empire.
On cheat mode I steamrolled all those other pesky civilizations before making it to Alpha Centuri on a lark.
> unless you suggest bombing the whole world.
No, but I do recommend beginning with Mecca, Medina, and Tehran, and I further recommend cobalt bombs, to send the proper message.
> This makes you a shitty person.
And you're a big doodyhead. There, I win.
on what basis do you suggest bombing mecca, medina, and tehran. None of those cities have anything to do with us getting attacked. the people who SUICE BOMB do NOT fear being BOMBED! ASSHAT!
>>120
thus the next muslim countries who are u not mentioned will started to raining down their secret "black project" nukes (remember, u just say Tehran not WHOLE Iran!).
later, the next massive attacks more fearsome than the Japanese invasion might appear, justifying the act to invade and conquering the WHOLE country!
read the history of mecca itself fools! it is mentioned that the Kaaba itself suffers damages time by time and mecca DID being attacked before. Yet, it still there!
even if we are so powerful enough to banished all the muslims in the world to the endless outer space they still can tracked mecca as their holy place (they always facing there to pray remember...) or should i said EARTH and even though there is no more arabia, no more mecca and other holy places the LAND WAS STILL THERE! they will always come bak.
unless just like 118 said. if u think by destroying our world, our beautiful ecosystem with those stupid weapons pollutions manifesting earth..........man.......u such a great messiah!
and being living in nothingness is cool to me....
gentlemen, let us dance in Danse Macabre style! :)
Yes, yes, yes. I know. "OMG teh SUICIDE KOMMANDOZ r FEARLESS! If u kill them there will just b MOAR!"
The Japanese had suicide fanatics too.
We dealt with that problem by destroying the culture and religion that produced them. I propose to solve the Islam problem in the same manner. It would certainly be cheaper than an occupation army and generations-long attempts, probably doomed to failure, to force first Iraq and then the rest of the region to become Western-style peaceful parliamentary democracies.
All of them put together are not worth one American life, nor one cent of the American taxpayers' money, but I do see justification for repayment of debts in plutonium.
They started this war, they chose the rules of engagement. They can hardly complain.
>>126
But wat about our ecosystem dude?? Destroying one civillizaion than spans a numerous nations needs a lot of powerful weapons. Then after we sweep those guys away, all those dirty mines, chemical residues , nuclear clouds, anything after the aftermath of the war might be spread out man....
Being killed is one thing but being living in that condition is worse, considering muslims have legs to go wherever they want...
Our earth is one.....just one.....
(suddenly the whole thread ignores me.....)
>>126
is a Christian and American supremacy maniac!
>>128
I am an atheist, not a Christian. And you're a big doodyhead, so I win.
Here's another hilarious one that popped out at me as I was re-reading the thread:
> Um, people loved us until Teddy rosevelt decided it would be a good idea to start fucking with people
Who are these people? Do you mean the British, who invaded us in 1812 and threatened war in 1863 because the US Navy seized British merchant vessels carrying weapons to the Confederacy? Do you mean the French and Spanish, who were likewise so morally horrified by slavery that they spent the Civil War doing a very profitable business selling arms to the Confederates?
Or are you talking about the period after the war? Here, have a look at European attitudes toward the US during the Victorian Era:
That's "Shooting Niagara," by one Thomas Carlyle, 1867.
So, please explain to me, who "loved us?" Who EVER "loved" America, other than maybe certain Western European powers who found themselves in need of rescue from the Germans? And how many minutes did their deep and abiding affection last once the shooting stopped?
Who are "they?" The Barbary Pirates, perhaps? The Newfoundland Privateers? Who?
>>129
Opss....sorry...being a pacifist sometimes does help :(
Opss....sorry...being a pacifist sometimes doesn't help :(
fixed
The "they" you are attacking and advocating bombing to all hell are not the same "they" that started a war with us. That "they" is chillin out in northern pakistan and we are not attacking them. we left afghanistan to go to iraq while the Taliban (who did harbor al qaeda) has slowly retaken much of the country. Meanwhile, Pakistan says we are not allowed to send US troops to search for Bin laden. Ya, we really went after the right "they"....
As for japan's suicide bomber vs arab ones, the main difference is that in WW2, we were able to attack their "god" directly. The japanese Emperor was believed to b a living god but, in reality, was just a human being who could be intimidated. We also had the advantage of being able to attack their homeland
With the muslim extremists we can't do that. Point for me on the map where you see Allah's front door. please. ill wait... YOU CAN"T. The muslim god is imaginary (unlike the the phoney the japs had). you can't cow their imaginary friend into surrender by threatening to annihilate his land. These extremists also don't have a country for you to destroy. In their own apocalypse story, their holy lands are "destroyed by fire" so you would only play into their superstition that there is a holy war. and that would start world war 3. Its just stupid. There are 2 ways to handle these idiots who claim to "speak" for all the muslims of the world (pro tip: they don't!)
Besides, i dont think we should stay there. we should gtfo. If they kill each other, let them. Us leaving will not get the terrorists after us. they will be too busy having more sectarian fighting. remember, these extremists are all politicians manipulating religion. they wont tolerate each other anymore than they tolerate us because tis all about power. This is why you see sunnis killikng sunnis along with sunnis killing shias and muslims fighting our troops. they all wanna have the bigger dick. let them fight it out. its cheaper, easier, and it doesnt make us look bad. at this point, we can dump the blame on the iraqi government because they are already begging us to leave.
perhaps you should read the art of war to fully appreciate why your methodology faisl so hard and why in reality our military is only strong because of how much money we pump into it. brute force always looses to diplomacy and trickery. It is far more effective to use your enemy's own strength against him than to go full force against him and try to but heads becaus when you do the latter, pyrhic victories arise. With the former, losses are minimal and if the attempt fails, you still havent wasted any resources, where as your enemy is now winded. Think about it. If we used this mthod more, we wouldnt need to spend 1/3 a trillion dollars a year to accomplish what israel does i with 9 billion. we are inefficient and this stupid. your idea is a classic example of hubris and poorly planned warfare.
The "they" you are attacking and advocating bombing to all hell are not the same "they" that started a war with us. That "they" is chillin out in northern pakistan and we are not attacking them. we left afghanistan to go to iraq while the Taliban (who did harbor al qaeda) has slowly retaken much of the country. Meanwhile, Pakistan says we are not allowed to send US troops to search for Bin laden. Ya, we really went after the right "they"....
As for japan's suicide bomber vs arab ones, the main difference is that in WW2, we were able to attack their "god" directly. The japanese Emperor was believed to b a living god but, in reality, was just a human being who could be intimidated. We also had the advantage of being able to attack their homeland
With the muslim extremists we can't do that. Point for me on the map where you see Allah's front door. please. ill wait... YOU CAN"T. The muslim god is imaginary (unlike the the phoney the japs had). you can't cow their imaginary friend into surrender by threatening to annihilate his land. These extremists also don't have a country for you to destroy. In their own apocalypse story, their holy lands are "destroyed by fire" so you would only play into their superstition that there is a holy war. and that would start world war 3. Its just stupid. There are 2 ways to handle these idiots who claim to "speak" for all the muslims of the world (pro tip: they don't!)
Besides, i dont think we should stay there. we should gtfo. If they kill each other, let them. Us leaving will not get the terrorists after us. they will be too busy having more sectarian fighting. remember, these extremists are all politicians manipulating religion. they wont tolerate each other anymore than they tolerate us because tis all about power. This is why you see sunnis killikng sunnis along with sunnis killing shias and muslims fighting our troops. they all wanna have the bigger dick. let them fight it out. its cheaper, easier, and it doesnt make us look bad. at this point, we can dump the blame on the iraqi government because they are already begging us to leave.
perhaps you should read the art of war to fully appreciate why your methodology faisl so hard and why in reality our military is only strong because of how much money we pump into it. brute force always looses to diplomacy and trickery. It is far more effective to use your enemy's own strength against him than to go full force against him and try to but heads becaus when you do the latter, pyrhic victories arise. With the former, losses are minimal and if the attempt fails, you still havent wasted any resources, where as your enemy is now winded. Think about it. If we used this mthod more, we wouldnt need to spend 1/3 a trillion dollars a year to accomplish what israel does i with 9 billion. we are inefficient and this stupid. your idea is a classic example of hubris and poorly planned warfare.
'Tis a problem with the network at the office over here. Sometimes, our server doublesend information. theres nothing I can do about it and the network admins are incompetent. I used to think it was me because it only started happening recently but my departmental inbox if full of double and triple copies of the same email from different people. I just tested it out.
'Tis a problem with the network at the office over here. Sometimes, our server doublesend information. theres nothing I can do about it and the network admins are incompetent. I used to think it was me because it only started happening recently but my departmental inbox if full of double and triple copies of the same email from different people. I just tested it out.
'Tis a problem with the network at the office over here. Sometimes, our server doublesend information. theres nothing I can do about it and the network admins are incompetent. I used to think it was me because it only started happening recently but my departmental inbox if full of double and triple copies of the same email from different people. I just tested it out.