relationship goals

discussing whether something is or isn't art is for plebs

art turned to shite when people incapable of making standard art started making abstract art thinking they can be like the abstract artists of the past when abstract artists of the past were fully capable of making standard art before embarking on abstract art

art still kicks ass

>>992 Your rather sophomoric distinction between "standard art" and "abstract art" and your focus on "capability" kinda reinforces >>991's point. I agree there are a lot of mediocre artists making derivative, soulless art, but then again, that's neither here nor there in the grand scheme.

>>998
The fundamental distinction between knowing the rules that you're breaking and why you break them versus breaking the rules by your lack of knowledge and experience. Also, get.

And you have no idea of knowing that without context.

>>1002
Eh, you talk to enough artists, you find out real quick.

I will side with the abstract artist on this one. Abstract art makes you think and can be aesthetically pleasing. Noise music is audio torture-tier

Art is bullshit. Some is just marketable bullshit.

All for One and One for All
2002
Dimensions variable
Glass, compressors, rubber tubing, spray-guns, clamps and ping-pong balls

>>1017
You're in STEM, aren't you?

>>1019
Guaranteed this dude couldn't paint a landscape sunrise to save his life

>>1019
Maybe I'm just easily amused but getting the golf balls floating like that is pretty cool

>>1024 completely irrelevant...

>>999 also irrelevant, a neanderthal cave painting is as valid as a Caravaggio painting or Tracey Emin's stupid bed or deviantart furry porn or Hitler's boring paintings in terms of Art and expression. Knowing the rules to break them with intent can certainly make for a more powerful work of art, but someone deciding whether something is "art" or not depending on the creator's skill/understanding/context is redundant. That's not to say there isn't a lot of badly executed art of course...

>>1025 He did a few like this. In his book I think he said it represents the fragility of a life

I Want to Spend the Rest of My Life Everywhere, with Everyone, One to One, Always, Forever, Now
1991
Dimensions variable
Glass, compressor, rubber tubing, spray-gun and ping-pong ball

It works both ways, knowing the context of a piece and its creator can give a greater appreciation for what is being presented. I wasn't really into Damien Hirst at the time but I appreciated what he was doing a lot more after studying Francis Bacon, now I really like him. >>1031 is one of my favourite paintings because it's a play on my favourite Caravaggio painting... like finding a band I'd never heard of doing a weird interesting cover of one of my favourite songs

>>1031
If you've ever been to an art building at a community college you know exactly the type of person >>999 and >>1005 is talking about. Students that end up dropping out after a year who don't know any fundamentals and expect to be taken seriously just for having "out there" ideas, the exact person the OP is making fun of. Defend abstract art all you want, defend cave paintings and found object sculptures all you want, just don't pretend that the stereotype we're discussing isn't real. I don't think anybody here is actually bold enough to completely dismiss the works of accomplished artists. We're just not buying that anybody can be and call themselves an artist. Even the cavemen you referenced would not know the meaning of the word "artist" and had various different motivations for doing cave paintings.

The works by the guy you're posting are pretty neat though and I would not say they represent the person OP is mocking, so I don't really know why he needs defending.

>>1034 Anyone who makes art is an artist, that doesn't mean it's good art though - I never said the stereotype wasn't real. Both people in OP's pic are artists since they spend some of their precious time framing an idea in their chosen medium. Both people are plebs for thinking there's such a thing as "real art" and for spending some of their precious time casting aspersions on another's creativity. It doesn't actually matter at all if someone calls themselves an artist... I'm sure there are lots of art school dropouts with mad ideas, mad ideas a million other art school dropouts have had before them, but if they're taking the time to develop them then that's what being an artist is. It's true that someone would be shit at drawing There are a million Vomir clones not saying anything interesting at all, but that itself is art too.

It was >>1024 that suggested Damien Hirst couldn't paint a landscape sunrise, as if that had any relevance to being an Artist

https://youtu.be/lXqfe9LiUgo

One of my favourite works of art is Datum (I and II) by Dieter Meier. (That's the guy from Yello who sang OH YEAH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jJkdRaa04g among other things). In 1972 he installed this metal plaque saying "on March 23rd 1994 Dieter Meier will stand right here" and then on March 23rd 1994 he stood there! There's a slideshow here https://www.dietermeier.com/1994 but I'm sure I've seen footage of the event somewhere, the expression on his face as everyone crowds around him applauding is just great

People really getting mad when their personal values aren't treated as objective anymore huh.

People really posting the same thing over and over

I love how if you disagree with anything online you are "really getting mad"

I mean I'm not the one physically unable to enjoy all forms of art.

>>1035
That was just a joke, sorry!

Not mad at all! Art and Noise is Cool and Interesting!

https://www.atlasofplaces.com/essays/the-conspiracy-of-art/

>>1044
>As long as art was making use of its own disappearance and the disappearance of its object, it still was major enterprise. But art trying to recycle itself indefinitely by storming reality? The majority of contemporary art has attempted to do precisely that by confiscating banality, waste and mediocrity as values and ideologies. These countless installations and performances are merely compromising with the state of things, and with all the past forms of art history. Raising originality, banality and nullity to the level of values or even to perverse aesthetic pleasure. Of course, all of this mediocrity claims to transcend itself by moving art to a second, ironic level. But it is just as empty and insignificant on the second as the first level. The passage to the aesthetic level salvages nothing; on the contrary, it is mediocrity squared. It claims to be null – “I am null! I am null!” – and it truly is null.

Love it

>>1044
Baudrillard is a bunch of criticism but absolutely no proposals.

>>991
I'm entitled to agree. Virtually any object that gets presented as art can be considered to be art, because doing so would trigger the device of lifting the object out from automatism of perception, which is the very essence of all artistic forms. And there is nothing wrong with that. Aesthetisation of everyday items/abstractions/etc. can have a really strong emotional impact if it's done skillfully and tastefully. What most people really complain about is the abuse of the above-described trick that's been going on for decades, not the means of artistic expression per se. So at the end of the day, it's just the eternal matter of a work of art being or not being shit, which is what all other disputes of whether something is``true art'' can be reduced to as well.

I always get Gilbert & George and Gilbert & Sullivan mixed up 😳

oh heck

>>1049 Is that necessarily a bad thing?

>>3427
ntayrt, but yes

>>3448 You don't need to be a chef to know if the soup tastes bad... you don''t need to be a mathematician to know an even number squared couldn't give an odd result. Can it not still be valuable to mark the problems in a system or whatever without being able to give a good solution?

>>3449
do you live under a rock? have you ever actually seen someone taste bad soup? most likely they immediately say something like 'ah, it's too salty / bitter / spicy / i don't like the smell'. each of which indicates an improvement. you might as well use this as the definition of useful feedback.

as for the even number example, the obvious solution is ''don't square an even number and get an odd result, and your work will be closer to being correct.''

providing useful feedback is strictly better than only criticism, yes. just because it's obvious doesn't mean it's not true.

>>3450
I love stupid people who overestimate their intelligence.

>>3450 Uh yeah that's kinda dumb

i think if i met an abstract artist gf who really loved me and believed in me i would do it,,

>>3594 Become a noise musician? Do it bestie!