Hi there!
Is Avatar an Anime or not and do you like it either way?
don´t you have any opinion at all?
Who cares, it's all outsourced to korea anyway.
Not really, anime is by definition Japanese, as I see it, but Avatar certainly is an example of western animation heavily influenced by Japanese animation. But if Avatar is anime, than so is The Boondocks, an undeniably American show.
yeah sure but it is drawn the way anime is only that it doesn´t have the never ending plot like DragonBall and Naruto.
And Anime is just short for animation although I agree that it is somewhat more Japanese than other "regular" animation-shows
As for The Boondocks (and Avatar I guess) you could say that the try to make a combination of regular and japanese animation styles.
So that could mean that it is a new take on Anime outside Japan.
Sorry for long post and I hope you understand me.....
You're new here aren't you?
I always thought one of the main things that distinguished anime from western shows was its concise season run, usually adapted from manga, but even for original shows, the series new when to end. Never-ending shounen manga like Naruto are an exeption I guess.
the fact that animeshoun is a Japanese garaigo means to me that we're talking about a distinctly Japanese take on western animation. Any Japanese animation, regardless of what it looks like, will technically be anime by this token. In the same way that ALL animation, regardless of its origins, are anime when imported to Japan.
anime in anime out, that's how I see it.
Is it so obvious hehe?
yeah just wanted to see what other people thought not to convince anyone to think like me.
Yeah I think that anime is japanese but I also think that Avatar was really close to looking like an anime both style-wise and story-wise.
But I can´t really say much since I am kind of new to this and there sure are people who know more what they are talking about.
Great hearing your opinion, I almost thought that no one would reply to this topic. :)
no its not anime, stupid cartoon network and their lame artist are running out of ideas, and using anime-style characters (correction, american anime-style. which is total rip off, lame and whatsoever) to draw more attention cause they're loosing audience. everyone watch naruto, bleach, dragon ball, shaman king, yu-gi-oh, etc. but only westerner watch stuff like powerpuf firl or anything in their family... only a small number of asian watch them... look at teen titans (despite my thought that raven is extremely HOT). they have "anime" written everywhere the entire series. and avatar the last air bender are one of those kind. i dont watch much cartoon network, so i dont know much series.
my lilttle sister watch powerpuff girl and i only watch raven :D
Powerpuff Girls has been pretty popular in Japan, genius.
"Avatar: The Last Airbender (also known as Avatar: The Legend of Aang in several countries) is an Emmy Award-winning American animated television series"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar:_The_Last_Airbender
well no one said it wasn´t american
the question is just if the americans could make an "anime".
Some may say that it is just the japanese who have the "right" to make anime and manga or at least that they are the best at it.
I agree that they are the best but that is just because the have years of expirience.
anime = a Japanese word.
animation = the proper English word.
this is not a subject about what the words mean you know,
sure anime is japanese but does that mean that no one else can make anime except for japanese people?
Sorry guys, but it has to be Japanese to be a Japanese concept, like anime. If it's a Korean comic, it's called a manhwa for a reason.
Come up with some new word for the American style.
First off, on regards to The Boondocks, the first season was korean animated but season 2 is animated in Japan by Madhouse who is famous for anime such as Tenjho Tenge, Death Note, Card Captor Sakuar and Ichigo 100%. Would this make The Boon docks an anime now? Animated by japanese artists IN Japan but creator is of American desent. >>8 On the case of Power Puff Girls and Teen Titans were BIG shows in Japan on Cartoon Network Nippon, they were pretty popular here as well. I was sad to see Teen Titans go. And finally on the case of Avatar, it's a great show, at first I didnt like it because I thought about it as a rip off to Japanese animation, but around the second season I started watching it and liked what I saw so I downloaded the rest of it and watch the new episodes every friday. It is korean animation at its best, and u cant really call it a rip off of Japanese animation because of how it looks, because that is how Korean animation looks like. That is like saying Japanese animation was a rip off of american animation since it was made using Walt Disneys Ideas. We as humans have come along way and ideas are over used so get used to it.
If it's animated in Japan, but conceived, designed, and intended for American audiences, it's a little more ambiguous, but I consider that outsourcing, so no, it's not anime, even if the most talented Japanese artists are working on it and offering their creative input. It's an American idea and an American script, so it's an American project done in collaboration with Japanese.
Most in-between animation and color work in Japanese animation is done by Korean companies after all, but that doesn't make the film Korean, nor does it establish a solid or distinct Korean creative animation industry, although there's room for one.
Really, a thing like "Boondocks" should prove that these national distinctions are less and less important in a creative entertainment industry that seems more and more globalized and ready to borrow from its neighbors freely. The list of big-budget Hollywood films influenced, remade, or directly influenced by Japanese films is endless after all.
>>16 There are not really that many companies in Japan that have outside help dealing with animation since that would usually involve the use of more money. And, the idea of Boondocks being anime was a hypothetical question I know it isnt I am just using it to prove a point. Besides Why would a comapany that does in between work for a company create a nationality for a film? XD In anycase, I wouldnt think that korea inbetween work is usually done because there is a deadline for each episode, in your case you'd have to mail it out and wait for a return. The faster the shipping the more money you would have to invest and japanese animation doesn't have that kind of budget if any at all. Prove me if I am wrong, I would really like to know, but I am pretty confident in my research.
Well all of you can really argument ( a compliment)
but I think that the future will bring us a lot of mixed animes and manga. people seem to like the anime style which means that producers will introduce new shows that are anime-like in the native tounge of any country (not just english)
So that means that there will be a time when we will say that japan invented anime-style but that other countries produce it as well.
just a thought not a statement.
well let us just say that for now the definition of anime is that it is japanese animation and only future will truly tell how this definition will change, if it will change that is.
And I think most of you agree on that, no?
>>19 Are you mexican? XD but seriously I agree, anime is pretty much what comes to mind first when u hear it, and that would be Japanese Animation.
>>20 mexican? no how come? I am greek if you really want to know.....
>>21 It's because I am half mexican myself and I have quite a few mexican friends who end their sentences with no.
I feel that though Avatar does indeed use the art style known as anime - I can not consider it true anime. It is very westernized and though it appears to be trying to copy the Japanese anime style - it is based around Chinese ideas. I do enjoy the show but I don't think it can compare to true Japanese anime.
I dont know if Avatar is anime or not.
But I can say Toph is tsundere.
It can be a cartoon but is undenable the fact of Toph be a tsundere.
Your all avoiding the main topic at hand:
Would you lick Toph's feet?
Yes or No
>>26 no but I would like to meet her (as a friend or else she might kick my ass)
I definently think that it is NOT an anime!
I think avatar is definently an anime. While it used to be the case that for something to be anime, it came from japan, I think in todays current time it just has to have the anime feel. If your going to hold to the same old stupid stereotype that if it isnt from japan that it cant be an anime, I think your just holding to outdated thoughts. For a true test on if something is an anime or not, show a a beginner to the anime world a couple different shows, maybe some traditional DBZ, and how bout something new like Melancholy. Throw in some western anime, and ask him if all the stuff he watched was anime. While thier may be a western feel to Avatar, you cant tell me that all japanese artists draw alike. You can tell when an anime is drawn by a curtain person.
Let me start off from a different, yet relevant angle. First off, I am very pessimistic
about the future of the (Japanese) anime industry in the US with the rampant of fan-subbing.
You may have heard various execuses for fan-subbing, but the fact is, once poeple find out
that they can get something free, they will never pay.
So the industry has to change. Although it may sound somewhat outdated this day and age,
they still need to put the show on the air and get money from sponsors. The current US anime
industry's tactics of a little publicity and trying to get poeple to buy DVDs will never
take off. So the natural move next is to create something themselves. After all, the
current American broadcasting censorship is a major obstacle for anime to be on the air
and typical anime antics are too foreign for general public to generate enough money.
So they taylor-make shows.
Whether what they make should be called anime or not is just semantics and little interest
to me. By the way, I am not American but intereted in reading American anime fans reaction
to these "in-between" shows. Am I mistaken to assume that those who want to restrict the term
"anime" to shows that are made in Japan are not really happy about the current situation in
the US, although they may not have any feelings toward Avatar itself or even like it?
Well they're already doing that with the popular, money-making shounen franchises. Those aren't exactly a big part of the "anime-fandom", fan-sub consuming demographic, however. So it won't have any effect on them or the fansubbing. Mainstream anime/manga fandom is till growing though, so even with the reduced dvd sales, it's safe to say there's still some profits to be made off the foreign market. But it is at a major disadvantage when the local otaku, the meat-and-potatoes, core-target demographic, are highly reluctant to spend money on the localised products. That's a problem that Japan simply doesn't have, where every DVD is priced like a collector's item.
avatar is jsut a lame kids show trying to have the same appeal as anime.
It's technically not an anime. Anime is generally considered animations from Japan, specifically. This doesn't mean that Avatar's a bad show; it's one of the best animated shows on television created in the US(mostly; all the key frames, designs, sound and voice acting is done in the US, and all the tweens, the in-between frames, are done in South Korea).
Anime's just a type of genre, there's great stuff as well as crap, just like any other genre. Even though Avatar's not part of this genre, it doesn't really mean anything more than it's not made in Japan. Frankly, it's a pleasant surprise to see the animation industry in the US isn't going completely downhill without a fight, so I'm glad Avatar's not anime.
anime is not a genre :((((((((( it is a medium
It's not even any specific art style [you can have everything from Haibane Renmei to Sailor Moon, artistically], it's just the Japanese word for animation!
You would call Avatar "anime" when speaking Japanese. In English it is a cartoon.
Except that in the rest of the world, 'anime' has acquired a different meaning: it means they were produced in Japan, and build upon some aspects of the Japanese animation techniques and culture.
There are definitely quite a few shows produced in Japan that wouldn't qualify as anime if they had been produced somewhere else.
But as to whether a show produced outside of Japan could be considered as anime, until now absolutely every one of them are horrible attempts at copying some of their superficial characteristics, and they never, ever rise above the uncanny valley territory.
If a cartoon produced outside of Japan became popular with otaku from Japan, then you could probably call it anime.
(Spoiler: this will never happen)
Otherwise, it's just an attempt at cashing on a trend.
> There are definitely quite a few shows produced in Japan that wouldn't qualify as anime if they had been produced somewhere else.
And among those are pretty much all of Japan's most famous anime, like Doraemon or Crayon Shin-chan.
Or Gundam. Oh wait.
yeah, that is what I tried to tell you all along....
that anime is a word for animation. Not a genre..... if it was a genre (type of animation rather than just animation) then it would stand for a type of "anime" like horror or action, but still all anime falls under the same name.
Why don´t they split up naruto from helsing and samurai champloo from one piece? It is all called anime....like animation, which tranlates into the english word "cartoonshow" or just show you know, the category under which avatar falls under. Now I know that lookwise there are major diferrences. family guy and simpsons differ a lot and the differ from avatar which differs from spongebob that differs from sailor moon and so on but all these shows are animated shows = anime = show.
Thanx for reading and sorry for long post.
Well certainly if you're using the Japanese definition, then it is. But most English speakers won't, so it isn't. And I don't think the distinction is style-based, it's based on where it's made. Or more precisely, where the designers are. I know Korea draws a lot of anime. ;-)
>I know Korea draws a lot of anime.
If it originates in Korea then it's animeh, not anime.
well i think "we" from the west call it anime because well, the drawing style was new to us, but now that avatar (and I hope other western shows) start to look like anime-style the line gets blurred.
Besides, Avatar is also animated in korea if you didn´t know....
Does it make it a regular show if an anime is dubbed, then the language isn´t japanese plus it is made abroad, huh what about that? Is it anime just because some japanese dude came up with the idea? (no offense to japanese dudes) If it is , let´s say a person from spain living in japan who makes up a show and it is animated in korea, is it still anime? Or would you call it a show?
>Is it anime just because some japanese dude came up with the idea?
Yes.
>If it is , let´s say a person from spain living in japan who makes up a show and it is animated in korea, is it still anime?
No.
>>43
You misunderstood what I meant. What I meant was that Korea draws a lot of anime which is designed in Japan. Which is to say they draw a lot of in-between frames.
>>45 but you never know if al the anime-creators are native japanese people, what if someone is adopted into japan and comes up with a plot is it anime then? It´s not like he chose his family or country, right?
>>46 If the creator is Japanese then it's Japanimation, aka anime. If the creator is Korean then it's Korean animation, which I believe is called animeh/(animhwe?) in Korea.
>>47 If the creator is Spanish then he's not Japanese. If he was raised in Spain it's likely he's familiar with Spanish archetypes and ignorant of the Eastern archetypes, and even more ignorant of the Japanese archetypes. The reverse is true: I heard of Korean animators being unable to animate simple concepts very familiar to Western continents and skipping drawing those scenes, or being very sloppy with them and that the scenes had to be redone.
>>48 I meant that a person born and raised in japan but with parents from another country who gets into making anime in japan, is it still called anime? I mean he isn´t japanese just raised like one....
>>49 I dunno, give me a concrete example. Who was born and raised in Japan from foreign parents and who made an anime, and which anime was that?
Also, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime
>>50 i am just sayin theoreticly
Isn´t it a little childish to state that only animation made by a japanese person is anime?
I can agree on anime coming from japan but if you are raised as a japanese person even though your parents are from another country and you make an animated show won´t it be called anime with the only reason being that you happen to have foreign parents?
This is why I have given up making the distinction and now call it "Japanese anime" to remove the argument. Comes in handy when thinking in Japanese too, since if you say "anime" over there that can apply perfectly well to anything animated anywhere.
>>52 thank you! See japanese people use the word anime for "anything animated anywhere" that is why I think we should either do the same (call all animated shows anime) or use our own words like animation, cartoonshow, show or whatev to name any kind of animated show. That means that we can still call japanese animated shows for anime AND shows like avatar for anime as well.....
That is a good point.
Think of it this way: If a lets say swedish cook made a greek salad it would still be called a greek sallad because it would have the ingredients that are needed for making a greek sallad. It wouldn´t just be called a greek sallad only when a greek makes it (even though it it is originated from Greece). In the same way: A show that tries to look like anime should be called an anime even though it isn´t made by a japanese or from japan. Maybe we cannot call any show an anime because to us from the west anime isn´t just a show but a type of show, the type of show that looks like anime: Big eyes, big hair, small nose and so on and so forth.
But still: Avatar I think (And this is just my opinion) could be called an anime (even though it isn´t)
How much panties shots, sex, blood, deaths, and other adult themes are there in Avatar?
You might as well ask the same question of Doraemon.
And sailor moon or what about pokémon?
Sailor Moon got censored to death before it was allowed to air in the US. Several Pokemon episodes got dropped/censored too. Dunno about Doraemon.
>>56
You are just baiting people to provide a long list of japanese cartoons without all that.
>>60 you are kind of right, he/she is and well maybe that person is only watching "adult" anime and forgot about all the other shows that aren´t only about deaths and such.
Americanime
A North American cartoon that attempts to mimic or copy japanese anime style, due to the increasing popularity of anime in North America. The characters are drawn similarly to usual anime, but the eyes are simpler. The characters' personality also attempt to mimic the exaggerated way anime characters act, and come off just looking dumb.
Person A: I love Totally Spies and Martin Mystery! The drawing style is so cool!
Person B: God, I hate that dumb americanime. It's just North Americans trying to rip-off regular good ol' anime.
Person A: ...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Americanime
Totally Spies? Was that thought of to look like anime?
I know boondocks and avatar look like anime but never heard of Martin Mystery....
Nice find by the way! I didn´t know that there actually was a word for anime made in america (or by americans)- maybe because I´m not living there....
What about shows like batman, superman, spiderman, x-men (all somsething-man) and turtles - are they called something special in japan? (like in the same way we call their style anime and american anime for americanime)
I was just wondering.
Oh, and just because a show looks like anime (like americanime) doesn´t make it good, nor if it is anime. (not all anime or shows are good just because they are counted as anime or show)
>Totally Spies? Was that thought of to look like anime?
Well, it borrows a bunch of the visual Japanese conventions, like the sweat drop.
>What about shows like batman etc.?
I know these is a term for comics (コミック I think, in katakana), so maybe カートゥーン for cartoons. But the line is very blurry in Japanese, one should put "American" before "cartoons" to narrow the search. I heard that they are hard to find in Japan, but that they are some specialized shops where you can find them.
I had a little lulgassem, bare with me,kill your self, its not anime, you have butt hurt, Doremon was the shit, to be a anime IT DOES HAVE TO ITHER
A.) come from japan
B.)carry not just a animation style, but similar elements all around the bored
so that explain why you should kill yourself?
>>65 What? Sorry I don´t understand what you mean (not trying to be rude)
Sorry for double post but I guess that the main conclusion of this thread (in my opinion) is that:
In Japan: Anything animated is called anime
In the west: All animation "from" Japan is called anime and the rest is called cartoon/show, except for shows that try to look like anime that apparently are called americanime.
So at least those are the definitions as of today.
They may be changed in the future but that would/will be an "issue" for the future then.
As the thread creator I must say that I am happy to have cleared this up. Thank you all for contributing into reaching this answer.
(Don´t let this post be the end of this thread, if you have something to say then say it)
>>65
learn to english plz
Americanime... I predict it won't catch on because it's such an unwieldy word.
well it seems to be more or less the "official" word but that doesn´t stop people from refering to anime-inspired shows as just cartoons. But I guess it is just a faster way of explaining that a show is trying to look like anime and is made in america.
>>64 Hi! I was just wondering how you do to quote just a line like you did there.
I am kind of new here so I have no clue...
>Hi! I was just wondering how you do to quote just a line like you did there.
Just add a ">" manually.
>Just add a ">" manually.
Oh ok thanx!
well, whatever, I called anime a cartoon, and some fag tard decides I am an idiot for calling his precious moving pictures which is a cartoon, a cartoon, I'd say if it ain't real people running around doing shit, its a cartoon, Japanese people call it anime cuz thats how they say cartoons over there, while we in Canada and the US call most of our own stuff cartoons, I'm going with it all as a cartoons, however cartoon could be the big header of the folder and anime and whatever can fall under as some sub header, but who really cares, all cartoons to me anyways.
I call the top-level folder Animation. Under that I have Anime, Cartoons, Ero Anime. This makes far more sense.
NOT an anime. This shouldn't even be a question.
>>78 apparently it is an americanime....how about that? (said jokingly)
OK guys, I'm gonna sum up this thread so we can never discuss this again:
Word 'Anime' in Japan = animated shows from anywhere
Word 'Anime' in the rest of the world = animated shows from Japan
Using the Japanese definition in the rest of the world = trolling
"Americanime" = Cashing in on a fad.
Avatar and other shitty shows = lol
Now if you don't mind, I'm gonna throw up. Thread over.
>>80 well that was a semi-nice way of ending this thread...
Except the part about throwing up, that´s not very nice you know, for you at least. (Hehe)
>>80 OH, I just wonder if it is ok to call anime a cartoon since that´s what it is you know?
>>82
Yes
ok then, good.
have a nice day!
Very no.
>>22
Common in the Southern Romance languages and nearly all of the Slavic languages. Mostly because they were far more heavily influenced by Greek which originated the construction than, say, High German or Norse.
The "and" at the beginning of the second sentence in that post as well as the lack of an article before "future" give away that the post probably wasn't made by an English-learning Mexican, though.
Sounds good, I guess.
no
ok
ok
mmmmmm, not anime, but really, who cares?
"americanized" anime...'nough said
it's a miserable little cartoon! how can there be any question?
Well some may wonder either way in general, not just about this one show.
Everyone, shut up. We're done with this thread.
that is what I thought too but maybe someone wants to know if it can go on some more
Stop your crappy attempt at trolling. No new argument has been introduced in this thread in the last 2 months. There is an overwhelming consensus that when used in the English language, the word 'anime' can only refer to animated shows from Japan.
People who don't like that fact said so, they were rebutted, then stupid trolls wanting to see some wapanese indignation just reformulated the exact same thing.
No show made outside of Japan (+ international outsourcing) has ever been called 'anime' by people who actually watch anime frequently, and who are therefore the people who shape the meaning of that word.
If you disagree, bring a new argument to this thread or suck it up.
Well I thought that that already was the conclusion of this thread. We don´t need to repeat ourselves all the time.
It was fun while it lasted but there is an end to this now.
Have a nice day.
NO its not.
Anime = japanese animation
Avatar = somewhere not in japan
Therefore, avatar is NOT an anime