So, taking a look at the popularity of 2ch and how significant it is within Japanese internet culture, what exactly are the cultural/social differences that make 2ch so popular and 4-ch so dead (relatively)? Although one could claim it was Densha Otoko that really brought 2ch into the mainstream attention, the fact of the matter is that it was nearly ubiquitous previous to Densha.
Furthermore, what can be done to make 4-ch more popular? I would love to see the board become as strong as 2ch, and although that may not be possible, it would be nice to see a community develop.
It's impossible.
Japanese and Americans have a different mentality. I think Japanese people are usually reserved, and thus need anonymous message boards so that they can finally be themselves.
Americans, however, aren't as reserved, and thus don't really see the advantages of using it.
That's not likely to happen... I mean, when I post on 2ch I get
replies almost instantly.
In this place it sometimes takes days to get a reply.
phpBB and stuff like that are the norm for English speakers and
I can't see that changing anytime soon.
Ok, so it may be impossible for it to become as popular and widely used as 2ch, however, is it possible for it to reach the popularity of 4chan? Or, does 4ch think it's just the imageboard functionality that makes 4chan as popular as it is?
I hate 4chan. Seriously, it's finished IMO.
I think you're right. From the beginning, 4chan had a different focus in mind than 2ch or 4ch, and since then, it's degraded significantly into rambling of /b/tards about internet memes and racism. That being said, I know I wouldn't want 4ch to turn into 4chan... just for it to have as much traffic with users such as those who currently post. Impossible? Absolutely.
> Japanese and Americans have a different mentality
Except there are very little Americans here. There are many Europeans, however.
One thing is that many of the people who know about this board are people who interested in Japan and so know about 2ch, but are English speaking.
But for many English speaking people, they want to have "avatars" and such, and thus like the traditional phpBB type boards.
I recommend you tell all of your otaku friends about this place! It'll be fun! Or retarded...
>>7 tsk tsk...don't you know ALL westerners are Americans? What were you thinking? (I'm kidding of course)
>>8
I actually post on 2ch as well as here.
I just think it's kind of cool to post
in my native language.
Oh, and I'm not into anime at all.....
And so, this place isn't just for Wapanese.
Should I feel a bit out of place here?
I think that you're right though.
The majority of posters here are just
people who probably want to post on 2ch
but can't speak Japanese that well...
Maybe 4ch focuses too much on one
group of people.
This place should widen it's focus and
actually live up to it's "Let's talk
about everything" motto.
Only then can it become anywhere near as
popular as something like 2ch.
I think you're right, but the problem is that the addition of more focused boards simply creates disparity within 4ch itself, rather than bringing in others.
Let's say, theoretically, there was an advertising effort for 4ch, paid for solely through donations, or a movement of bloggers finding refuge in 4ch. The audience would widen, and would thus grow as people would have more reason to continue returning. I think the question should be first how to raise traffic, then how to make more focused boards, etc.
Agreed. But how would you suggest we raise traffic? I often post in the Sports section for example only to come back and see the thread I started weeks ago STILL at the top with no replies. I don't think alot of people trust the internet enough or think it's 'cool' to use forums like this for information and discussion. I'm afraid we need to broadcast our existence more at the risk of attracting more idiots simply to broaden our userbase. Don't forget 2ch has it's share of trolls and idiots too.
Yes, it's quite a conundrum. As it stands, 4ch feels like a community, but a very, very close-knit one and without the far-ranging interests as found on 2ch. 2ch certainly does have its share of jerks (read: all of the racism against Koreans, which is inexcusable despite being widely cultural), but that comes with any anonymity, regardless of culture. Anonymity breeds free speech, but that's not always a good thing (although this is an age-old argument).
I've been spreading the word about 4ch, and I'm sure many of you all have, but the fact of the matter is that if one friend of each of us on 4ch starts using it, it's still not enough to bring in the numbers to make it worth having open in a Firefox tab at all times.
Just a thought.
1) Because it is 4-ch, not 4ch.
2) Too much of /personal/ everywhere on all the boards; by that I mean too many emo loser shutins with no life and friends on 4-ch and they like to talk about their issues
3) emo loser shutins with no life and friends will not have an effect on 4-ch when they tell their imaginary friend about 4-ch
4) Everyone acts like a eunuch here; by that I mean they have no balls (and they are proud of that fact); see DQN and its ball-lessness
5) Anonymous. And the whole "I hate namefags" crap. A community will never form here because of anonymous and the lack of memes.
>>14
We have memes.
We have mittens
We have tanasinn.
We have Nida.
We have Steyr AUG.
And most of all, we have DENSHAAAAAAAAAA
A community forming here has nothing to do with memes. gb2/b/.
>>19
Okay, how exactly fo you think there is going to be a community feeling around here? A community needs something in common. At the very least they need to know each other. If that is not possible, they need some kind of culture that they can hang on to, something that is common about them.
To me, 4-ch culture is fucking /personal/ and all the shutin fags whining about their life. That is pretty much it around here.
They don't all need to know each other for there to be a large population here. A large population doesn't require a "community feeling".
And, for the record, the people that come here DO have something in common. They wish to have an intelligent (or at least mostly intelligent) discussion about subjects that interest them. Furthermore, they wish to have these sorts of discussions in an anonymous environment, which if you don't understand the benefits of that then I suggest you stop posting here and read this page: http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan/ .
We don't need Cockmongler or Happy Negro or Longcat to have these kind of discussions here. And anyway, if that's the only way to get more people to come here, then I'd prefer it stays like it is now, as this whole site would just become another /b/.
>>22 people have intelligent discussions here? DQN seems to be the happenin' place.
And longcat is loooooong.
>>22
I was trying to say why a lot of people don't frequent 4-ch. I sometimes come here, mostly because I like being anonymous, but I am put off by 1) the whole /personal/, emo, shutin crap 2) the anti namefag stuff 3) the tone of the average anonymous here, who sound like someone with no ball, seriously I can't explain that 4) lawl Japan, but I don't mind that, it's something interesting to talk about.
And I didn't mean memes like Longcat and Cockmongler; I don't exactly know what..a certain set of ideas that people who frequent here should have...I don't know.
I don't have long to type this post, but I will address your points in the same order you did.
1) If you don't like /personal/, don't go there. Not every single board on this site caters to everyone's interests or likes. I'm sure there are people here who think /love/ is just for people who can't get laid, or that /dqn/ is for retards. So they don't go there. Easy solution.
2) Of course there's an anti-tripcode sentiment on a board that is based on anonymous discussion. The vast majority of 4-ch users (and, to the best of my knowledge, 2ch users) agree that in MOST situations, an anonymous discussion works best when everyone is anonymous, and that anyone who tries to not be anonymous (ie by using a name and tripcode) is doing it to stand out, which is looked down upon.
3) Just as you can't explain this point, I don't really have an answer or explanation, except that I haven't noticed it. Sure, a lot of people here are the hikki type, or otherwise socially awkward, but a lot aren't, as well. /shrug
4) The idea of this board came from a Japanese one, so of course there's going to be a large community of people here that are interested in Japanese culture.
I'm neither >>25 nor >>26, but to address point 3 - I like to think that Anonymous here at 4-ch is quite a nice guy. I know that I try to avoid needlessly trolling posts, and try to avoid the whole "OMG FAGGOT IDIOT SHUT THE HELL UP!" knee-jerk replies that I might use elsewhere. I suppose that could be construed as having no balls. But that's the way I likes it! =D
( ﾟ ヮﾟ) < After all, 4-ch.net is a BBS for simple and fun communication!
The reason why 4-ch will never be so popular is because we already have many boards for English-speaking people interested in Japan. There are boards run by media organizations encouraging discussion of news articles. There are Japan-related Usenet groups, there are anime boards. We already have boards for almost every hobby or subject related to Japan. There are blogs.
Also, the 2ch software you are using for this BBS probably has the worse-looking layout and least understandable system. For 1st-time users, it sucks. As someone mentioned above, we are too used to conventional board systems like phpbb, blogs, wikis, and myspace. We understand how it works. But this 2ch software is totally alien to most people. Not very intuitive to use.
This software is uniquely popular only for 2ch. It will never become a popular system in the more logical and design-conscious English-speaking world. This board really looks primitive, like the text-only days before the Internet when we had Compuserve, etc. Finding a thread is too troublesome.
You should have used a better and more modern software like an SNS system such as mixi.
And who wants to come here when you all keep calling each other faggots?
For first time users this place fucking rocks!!!
>And who wants to come here when you all keep calling each other faggots?
We do?
Also, you must admit that the shut-ins and /l&r/'ers are now part of the 4-ch culture. Without them, out userbase is smaller. :(
And it's because of anonymity that they/we can discuss those kinds of things, as well as "normal" topics, much like the people at 2ch.
The reason why 4-ch won't be as popular and humongous as 2ch is like what 28 said. I really agree with what he said. There are just too much of forum boards that have avatars and whatnots that we have grown so accustomed too.
But...
I keep coming back here again and again. And its not like I don't have other boards to go to. It's just that this board has a somewhat effect that draws you in. Maybe because its just special and its something that we haven't seen before, I don't know.
It was Densha who introduced me into this alien world, firstly 2ch and in turn here, 4-ch.
I also like the fact that you could insult people like "YOU FUCKING BASTARD!! YOU ATE OUT OF YOUR OWN MOMMA!!" without having your post getting deleted. That kind of thing.
Though, I'm keeping my finger crossed that more people would frequent this alien world here.
This is one of the places that shut-ins or other wise socially problematic people come and talk, or as you like to say, whine about their problems on /personal/, /love/
If you want them out, just close these two, and moderate General. but what’s the point of that? It sure doesn’t make your user base any larger
I rather not see any one else here if this place is going to get closer to anything like 4 chan.
>>1
If I spam the link to this forum on 4chan.org, then it will become popular, bu then again, quantity over quality.
What is it with this crap you all are saying about 4chan, 4chan, 4chan?? What did 4chan do to deserve your seemingly negative comments?
>>35
Do you read 4chan with blinders on? It's a pool of shit. It's like inviting Gaia to come post.
>>31
I don't think being Anonymous will ever be a major draw to this BBS. You can easily be anonymous at most other forums. Use a nickname, use a temporary email address when registering, etc.
Being able to remain anonymous is certainly not a unique feature.
>>38 but you can pretend you're not anonymous here, even though you really are. just put in ridiculous names and tripcodes that mean nothing.
and it's possible to have a conversation with yourself in a thread and pretend to be two different people, and if your styles are unique enough people will believe it and get in on the conversation. i have to admit i have replied to my own posts on a couple of occasions.
>>38
I think what 31-san means is that on pseudonymous forums people are marked by a pseudonym. With that, people can be judged based on their names rather than their posts. Here, Anonymous-san can spam all he wants and no one can really tell one Anonymous from another. (The exception, of course, being the mods.)
> no one can really tell one Anonymous from another. (The exception, of course, being the mods.)
Except I, and most likely the other mods, don't really care, unless it's a spammer.
Woah...this thread is getting to speed pretty fast.
Keep it boys and girls!
Considering that this 4-ch and 2ch is pretty much the same thing, why is it that 2ch is so damn popular where the posts are posted in the millions daily? And not all of the people who posts are shut-ins, mind you.
I's a social retard and decided to stick around this place because Anonymous here is my kind of people :D
This thread gives me a headache.
2ch is huge because it's been around for ages, and the internet has expanded around it.
4-ch can't be expected to match that, leastways not any time soon.
That's not so bad, though. I like it here.
I'm in ur 4-ch, making it sadder.
The only comparable English equivalent to 2ch is Usenet which has been around well before the Internet. Usenet has threads for almost every subject imaginable. Same goes for 2ch.
In comparison, 4ch still has very few categories and threads. Perhaps it reflects the number of people who come here. This condition alone will not attract the numbers you might like.
And most importantly, 4ch is not famous and has nothing to make it famous. It is not notorious like 2ch. It is not as diverse as Usenet nor Yahoo/Google Groups. What special or unique thing does 4ch have which would appeal to the masses? I see no such thing. There is no word-of-mouth buzz.
If you think the secret to 2ch's success was the BBS software, you are dead wrong. I'm guessing that whoever started 4ch thought (or hoped) that using the same software would result in the same popularity as 2ch. That was not to be.
There are many more factors and variables at work than just a piece of software for making a super popular site/forum/BBS. The college kid who started 2ch probably had no idea how wildly successful his project would become. He happened to do something at the right time and right place. His unique idea caught on and one thing led to another and it snowballed to what it is today.
Being unique and being the first one to do it is one key to success. The copycat will never attain the same success as the original inventor of a successful venture/formula. (One exception is General Electric, started by Thomas Edison, which is all but buried by Japanese makers.)
2ch's massive success is really unique. You can't duplicate it. Look at the Windows OS, eBay, PayPal, Yahoo Japan Auctions, Microsoft Word/Excel, Google, YouTube, Skype, and the iPod. All of them are enormously successful and they all have copycat ventures like Linux, Google Video, Zune, etc. None of these copycats have attained the same success as their original inventors. And they never will.
4ch is destined to be a niche thing, instead of a massively popular board. You all might as well accept this reality. One good thing about 4ch is that, for gaijin who wanna try and understand how 2ch works, they can come here first and see everything in English. After they understand how 4ch works, it makes it much easier to understand 2ch's system.
>Usenet which has been around well before the Internet
I think you mean before the Web.
I agree and disagree with various points in your post.
I'm sure 2ch didn't have something to "make it famous" at first. It was famous before Densha Otoko. And I'm sure the choice of 2ch-style software wasn't made to ensure some sort of "automatic popularity."
However, I agree that 4-ch will probably never be quite as popular as Japan. Western culture is so rooted in the idea of identity that the anonymous BBS concept will never catch on here, at least not to the extent that it has in Japan. I believe that it can become more popular, though. It will just take time and dedication by the users.
I don't know many other Americans who are really aware of 4-ch. Even so, I think 4-ch has the ability to become far more popular than it already is. Probably never as popular as its Japanese counterpart but the potential for some growth is there.
I think the anonymity is a big part of what attracted the /love/ and /personal/ crowds. People can talk about things that might result in drama if RL acquaintances figure out their identity. I can also see how an increase in that demographic might not produce a wider userbase.
Hmm, i think many who come here are scared away by the design or the simplicity (1997 forum style) layout.
No images beyond the main 'click enter page' feels like a website run by a 12y old who cant do html (but is awesome @ scripting lol)
All basic forums have smilies, and can post images, resize text etc.. Everyone here (almost) is posting as anonymous and there is no registering, the "create new thread" is at the bottom of the screen so you have to scroll it and same goes for the reply form.
These things probably scare people who are used to myspace,xanga and gaialike forums with eyecandy, flash, images and cool layouts. It's like an alien world.
And yes, 4-ch can beat 2ch in size, there no doubt about that because 4-ch uses english as the main language and well, yeah..
Sure, in THEORY, 4-ch can beat 2ch in size, but that's ignoring the main problem. Like you said, people in Western culture are "scared away" by the simplicity and anonymity. It's just not what they're used to. I'm confident that 4-ch will gain popularity, it will just take a long time.
>>53
images are the worst thing to happen to the web since html.
>>I'm sure 2ch didn't have something to "make it famous" at first. It was famous before Densha Otoko.
Are you under the impression that Densha Otoko was the first, only, or the most (in)famous of things to happen on 2channel? It definitely was not.
Oh, but if that was a troll, >>50, then keep up the good work.
I knew that there were other big things to happen on 2ch. Just saying that most people don't.
As for the Neomugicha incident, I can't find any information on how much, if any, that contributed to the growth of the site (granted I didn't look very hard, so feel free to surprise me). To my knowledge, 4chan didn't experience some sort of exponential growth after the Jake Brahm incident (but it's already pretty big, so maybe it just went unnoticed?) Oh well.
i guess the potential of 4ch is much bigger than that of 2ch, even if 2ch is far bigger than 4ch so far. its simply because there are much more english speakers than japanese speakers.
Although japanese pple are more reserved and they consider 2ch is a very good place for them to become themselves, like >>2 say, we have far more potential pple who doesnt even know the existance of 4ch around the world.
let them know the existance first and then find out the way to attract them.
It's all about timing (and luck). 2ch was created in the right time, and once it captured enough people, it only kept growing and growing just because it has the largest number of posters in Japan. Kind of like Microsoft Windows. (2ch's forum system is rather primitive even at the time of its inauguration.)
>>60
well then when do u think is the best timing?? when should 4ch have been created?
>>60
well then when do u think is the best timing?? when should 4ch have been created?
>>61
Before vbulletin was invented, or at least in the early days of 4chan, before it got text boards. As I understand it, for a long time Japan was as far behind the west in the internet as the west was behind Japan in mobile phones. 2ch came along just as the japanese web was really taking off.
Although there are big english forums now, none of them really approach the relative universality or ubiquity of 2ch in their own culture. The only thing that ever came close was Usenet, but that has been rendered largely irrelevant by spammers and web forums and it wasn't really anonymous. It was also decentralized, so the newsgroups you had access to depended on what your NNTP server subscribed to and it was cumbersome to download new posts one by one.
There are way more loser virgins in japan than in the west?
Just think about it. jap men have small, weak, pathetic bodies and tiny penises which means they can't get laid and have to stay inside all day. Only a small percent of people in the west are like that.
I hardly believe that 4chan's discussion boards are going to inhibit the growth of 4-ch. :p
Wow, you're extremely ignorant and also a racist. I bet you $10 you can't find one reliable source to back up your conclusions.
>>67 There are loser virgs everywhere -- such as yourself.
>>64 And there are way more obese and unhealthy people in the west than in Japan!
The Japanese smoke a lot though...why do they smoke? That is so unhealthy and disgusting.
what r u talking about??
"People in the west" surely like to talk about penis size all the time.
What's with their obsession with penis anyway?
obsession to compensate for lower brain mass
>>74 Ironic obsession to compensate for small penis size more like
I think an anonymous board could take off, if the conditions were right.
First, we need to be the first with good information. People started reading blogs when it became clear that blogs had good information not available elsewhere. For one, the memogate scandal was broken by bloggers who managed to determine that the documents were written on MS Word in Courier New, rather than in the 1960's with a typewriter. If 4-ch or other such boards got the goods first, then people would come just to read the news. They may stay for DQN, which has its own charm.
Secondly, it should have good advice. That's what the original 2chan has for the Japanese, ask a question on 2chan, and chances are an expert will answer, rather than having to look it up yourself.
Thirdly, it needs more discussions.
Anonymity isn't as significant a feature of 2ch as is often commented. 2ch doesn't have account system because the forum script was simple and primitive. You are still anonymous anyway even if you create an account with email verification on forums like phpbbs unless you are using your real name for account name.
No, that's not anonymity, that's pseudoanonymity. Sure, you're anonymous as far as your real life is concerned, but in a registration system people will recognize you from thread to thread. You will have a "personality". That is, unless you create a new account for every topic you wish to post in.
Er, whoops. That should be "pseudonymity", not "pseudoanonymity".
4-ch needs a philosophy board :)
>>78
Anonymity is a significant feature of 2ch. The admin himself is a proponent of anonymous posting. Second, one is no longer anonymous when multiple posts can be traced back to one source.
>>1
Easy answer, do what the popular boards are doing right now. I'm sure if 4-ch switched to phpbb, established a "rep" system, postcounting, etc., it would get popular and turn into a typical english speaking animu board like the hundreds out there.
How did 4chan get such high posting rates? By allowing it's base to create the content, hate speech, whatnot - result? People visit.
2ch is made popular for news4vip, 4chan by /b/
If 4-ch wants to be popular, dqn has to be popular first.
You can't get people to visit a board where the subject matter is alien to the masses. 4-ch will never be popular imho.
Instead of asking us the questions why? shouldn't we regulars contribute to the growth of 4-ch?
and yes, im doing my part.
I know it isn't an issue, but why dont we change the name of this website.
I know we copied everything and are wannabie 2channel, but it would be nice with some originality.
>>85 I'd highly recommend DQN to my friends...if I had any.
>>90
I got a friend to go to DQN, and he complained that it hurt his brain, or something like that.
Speaking as a noob, I would say that many people don't even know this place exists. The only reason I found out about 4ch was through wikipedia when I was searching up Mona. I think it would take a while for new people to get used to cause I already find it overwhelming in the most confusing way.
From what I can see it's not very active either. Is there like a thread that has any introduction... or like a guide? (.____.)
>>94
Well, there's the wiki ( http://4-ch.net/wiki/ ) and the rather old, but still important text about why 2-ch style anonymity matters - http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan
Oooooh I completely overlooked the wiki before~ Thanx
I am a /b/tard, commenting on this thread.
After Otakon, imo, 4chan really went to hell, because it was infested by cocksucking animu retards.
The reason I love the chans and ch boards is BECAUSE I don't have to identify myself with anything I post. I can post the most vile, hateful things, and not worry about getting banned, or whatever.
I don't have to worry about my reputation being messed up if I post something stupid.
I don't understand why everyone is so obsessed with phpBB, to me, it's a hassle.
I was going to work on a project of mine, a ch, but I don't have the time yet. ;_;
I honestly can't tell if this is a troll or not.
>After Otakon, imo, 4chan really went to hell, because it was infested by cocksucking animu retards.
Welcome to the purpose for practically the entire site. Have you never been to a board other than /b/? /a/, /c/, /cgl/, /cm/, /d/, /e/, /h/, /m/, /u/, /w/, and /y/ all have to do with anime-related content. Having "cocksucking animu retards" on 4chan is absolutely nothing new.
To be honest, I'm a little glad that 4-ch isn't more popular than it is. If it was, I'd probably spend all of my time here. A little more activity wouldn't hurt however, especially in some of the niche boards.