So, taking a look at the popularity of 2ch and how significant it is within Japanese internet culture, what exactly are the cultural/social differences that make 2ch so popular and 4-ch so dead (relatively)? Although one could claim it was Densha Otoko that really brought 2ch into the mainstream attention, the fact of the matter is that it was nearly ubiquitous previous to Densha.
Furthermore, what can be done to make 4-ch more popular? I would love to see the board become as strong as 2ch, and although that may not be possible, it would be nice to see a community develop.
Because this website fucking sucks now
i agree. they ignore people who don't fit in here. If you ain't part of the clan... then you are shit. and since I am a loud moth fucker I am a troll. blah...
It's just round nice numbers and people like them.
The concept of "GET" originated on 2channel (where 2GET and 1000GET, the first and last possible replies to a thread, are the ones considered desirable), but is modified on 4chan due to 4chan being primarily imageboards rather than text-based message boards. On the text boards, 2ch style GETs are sometimes seen.
Actually, I think it's just your general idiocy rather than the fact that you're a "loud moth fucker." (My sympathy for the loud moths you've fucked, and, almost inevitably, killed in the process.)
> My sympathy for the loud moths you've fucked, and, almost inevitably, killed in the process.
It may be that his genitalia is of a size that allows him to comfortably copulate with a moth. This is my theory.
yes.. this is true. moths are my favorite thing to fuck.... still doesn't change the fact that this place sucks ass.
just isn't in my nature to leave somewhere once I've, being stalked
trolls like stalkers, not to be ignored I guess you don't follow your own advice... still a big DUMB ASS as ever I see since you refuse to ignore me. and trolls refuse to go away once a flame war has started. spread the love, keep the flame!
goes to find more moths to fuck.... tra la la tra la la tra la la
You'd be a better troll if your sentences were at all coherent.
i shol don'
>>208 I might just give in to you. I feel as if I just joined SA spelling anonymous... i feel like I have been defeated somehow. I'm gonna cry me a river. shit.
Why do you all like to hurt /b/'s feelings! The twisted nether from which /b/ is rooted has feelings too! sob raep loli sob
Too many references to /b/ and SA here for my taste. Shows the western audience's tastes really. Sad.
this thread has gone way off track
>>215
Maybe this is the root of 4-ch's unpopularity. While 2-ch has all sort of people, 4-ch seems to be made mainly of people that migrated from 4chan or SA, and that's not the greatest or most welcoming community.
>>217
Yup. Yet lot of people migrated here because they were annoyed by the stupid immaturity back there, and were happy to find 4-ch, providing a more mature anonymous text-based discussion board. Or maybe it used to.
I say this as i'm about to leave the forum forever, its not more popular because it sucks, its full of racism, sexism, homophobeism and just plain assholes. Don't get me wrong their are some good quality posts here, but the majority of them get weighed out by the crap ones. The basic answer is this is a SHIT HOLE, its not as bad as 4 chan but it' still awful. I bid the small percentage of sensible posters here a good day.
because no one fucking posts.
And if you do it gets deleted.
OK, I've given up on the idea of dedicated browsers. But what about the possibility of a Firefox add-on like bbs2chreader.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1560
Probably no possibility, eh?
On the more serious note, let me point out a couple of points 4-ch fails. The first point is the Entertainment section, especially anime and manga. They usually draw a lot of people because there are practically no anime fans who are not Internet addicts. If you ever visit anime boards, you notice that there are usually a couple, if not more, of really long threads going on. If you look at the anime board of 4-ch, you see it's pretty much dead. More people in 4-ch is always good even if their frequent board is the anime board.
The second point is the News section. News boards in 2ch are the most popular. There are several admin-type people in 2ch news boards keeping 2-channelers up to date by making new threads minute by minute. OK, this, 4-ch can't afford to do. But I think one of the more serious problems is that since English is the language in 4-ch, there are just too many things to cover in the world. Japanese is used only in Japan and they can focus on domestic news. And the Japanese generally like commenting on news, like Italians like to talk about politics or something. Just imagine how many comments a thread about Dan Bartlett's resignation, for example, receives in the most populated board or blog you know? And how many comments a similar type of thread receives in 2-ch?
There is a Japanese blog that is kind of similar to fark.com. All it does is to re-introduce 2-ch threads. Here is the address.
http://blog.livedoor.jp/dqnplus/
See many entries still receive more than 1000 comments? 2-ch is just too humongous. Just do what you can do, 4-ch!
There is no porn.
It's kind of a good thing, the annoying flame and spammers don't go here. That way we can have pleasant threads.
well, I suppose we could get some volenteers to find interesting atricles to comment on. The trouble is that no one comments -- there's the initial post, and maybe a post or two that give a 1 word response, and then they sit for months. That's why I more or less stopped posting news -- no one seemed interested, so what's the point?
If there were actual interesting and fun discussions here instead of troll and shit (like /love/ and /pers/) it would be more crowded.
maybe its because no one in america has ever heard of the 2chan boards.
here in the states, most people are used to the username signup thing with message boards or they don't want to get involve with the whole hassle of it so they just ignore message boards entirely.
but in japan 2ch is so much a part of modern japanese culture, everyone there (and those that admire that place) accept it.
its just like language, some things just don't translate as well
HAY HAY
I KNOW
BECAUSE NOBODY IN AMERICA USES ANYTHING OTHER THAN MYSPACE
>>233
Haha, that's probably true.
But remember that what's great in 4-ch is that it isn't adressed to "americans" but rather to an international, english-speaking group of people.
2ch, on the other side, adresses uniquely to japanese speaking people, that is to say, japanese people. More or less.
um... but aren't ppl on the east coast of the us using facebook?
im just saying
because this site has a shitload of weeaboos and most americans don't want to have anything to do with weeaboos (who does?)
>>237
Trueth. You cant talk with them about anything besides japan and anime.
"Dude, did you saw the soccermatch yesterday?"
"PIKA PIKAAAACHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!"
"I have a strange story. I was driving in my car when suddenly..."
"Yo, the story of yours; is it about japan music?"
"Nooo....?!"
"Pokemon?"
"No... ?!"
"GTFO of my face!"
Weeaboos can DIAF!
أنت, أنتم, أنتن, ك, كم, كن, ضمير المخاطب, كما, أنتما
>>227 Agreed. Everyone else is looking at the hentai on different image boards. Duh!
Only reason I'm not is I browsed most of them already. LOL!
>>240
anta , antom , antonna , ka , kom , kon , zamira almokhateb , koma , antoma
bet you thought only you can read that. Stop with the curverunes.
I've moved here because 4chan is getting dull. This is my first post.
Just wait. 4-ch will grow, the same way that 2ch did.
>>246
Give me one good reason why that would never happen.
>>249
It's not the design, it's the weeaboos and trolls.
I'm Gonna Make A Change,
For Once In My Life
It's Gonna Feel Real Good,
Gonna Make A Difference
Gonna Make It Right . . .
As I, Turn Up The Collar On My
Favourite Winter Coat
This Wind Is Blowin' My Mind
I See The Kids In The Street,
With Not Enough To Eat
Who Am I, To Be Blind?
Pretending Not To See
Their Needs
A Summer's Disregard,
A Broken Bottle Top
And A One Man's Soul
They Follow Each Other On
The Wind Ya' Know
'Cause They Got Nowhere
To Go
That's Why I Want You To
Know
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change)
(Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah)
I've Been A Victim Of A Selfish
Kind Of Love
It's Time That I Realize
That There Are Some With No
Home, Not A Nickel To Loan
Could It Be Really Me,
Pretending That They're Not
Alone?
A Willow Deeply Scarred,
Somebody's Broken Heart
And A Washed-Out Dream
(Washed-Out Dream)
They Follow The Pattern Of
The Wind, Ya' See
Cause They Got No Place
To Be
That's Why I'm Starting With
Me
(Starting With Me!)
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Ooh!)
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
(Ooh!)
I'm Asking Him To Change His
Ways
(Change His Ways-Ooh!)
And No Message Could've
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make That . . .)
Change!
I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror,
(Man In The Mirror-Oh
Yeah!)
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make The Change)
(You Gotta Get It Right, While
You Got The Time)
('Cause When You Close Your
Heart)
You Can't Close Your . . .Your
Mind!
(Then You Close Your . . .
Mind!)
That Man, That Man, That
Man, That Man
With That Man In The Mirror
(Man In The Mirror, Oh Yeah!)
That Man, That Man, That Man
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
(Better Change!)
You Know . . .That Man
No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
(If You Wanna Make The
World A Better Place)
Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change
(Take A Look At Yourself And
Then Make A Change)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Oh Yeah!)
Gonna Feel Real Good Now!
Yeah Yeah! Yeah Yeah!
Yeah Yeah!
Na Na Na, Na Na Na, Na Na,
Na Nah
(Ooooh . . .)
Oh No, No No . . .
I'm Gonna Make A Change
It's Gonna Feel Real Good!
Come On!
(Change . . .)
Just Lift Yourself
You Know
You've Got To Stop It.
Yourself!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
I've Got To Make That Change,
Today!
Hoo!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Got To
You Got To Not Let Yourself . . .
Brother . . .
Hoo!
(Yeah!-Make That Change!)
You Know-I've Got To Get
That Man, That Man . . .
(Man In The Mirror)
You've Got To
You've Got To Move! Come
On! Come On!
You Got To . . .
Stand Up! Stand Up!
Stand Up!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Stand Up And Lift
Yourself, Now!
(Man In The Mirror)
Hoo! Hoo! Hoo!
Aaow!
(Yeah-Make That Change)
Gonna Make That Change . . .
Come On!
(Man In The Mirror)
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know It!
You Know . . .
(Change . . .)
Make That Change.
because the largest thread with the most discussion is the "why isn't 4-ch more popular OR gloating over 2-ch AKA DENSHA OTOKO.
late to the party...
Plain and simple, 2ch style boards don't offer profiles, avatars or friends lists.
>>254
I do think the simplicity in everything would appeal to inexperienced internet users though..
Than explain 4chan. Anonymous AND Popular. Popular with retards, but popular.
Just since porn has to be brought through some sort of ASCII / Shift-JIS program...
If a program like that'd be more easileh available, 4-ch's popyalarity'd skyrocket!
;ppp
Maybe it's just not as well-known as 4chan. Blame it on furry pronz...
In the case of 4chan I deduce the "lawless" environment to be an important part of the attracting force. And the speed in the way you communicate.
And most likely the most important part: how YOU have the power to make 4chan 'yours'
>> 256
Hah! I didn't say that I don't like it because of the lack of bells and whistles.
>Why isn't 4-ch more popular
Just ready the boards, you'll understand.
I'll answer this:
1.This is text only board (Think of WoW and random MUD text game)
2.This software is clumsy,primitive,and non-userfriendly
3.Moderation/Banning is overrated,since it anonymous.
too much moderation and you get a desert.
4.PhpBB type forums are superior.See 2.
5.People want to have indentity,Anonymous is for trolls/people who want to shock/express themself in way which will damage their reputation.
6.This site is actually pseudonymous ,because of random hashes in ID field.SO its Neither Anonymous/Neither Cool.
* Registration keeps out good posters. Imagine someone with an involving job related to your forum comes across it. This person is an expert in her field, and therefore would be a great source of knowledge for your forum; but if a registration, complete with e-mail and password, is necessary before posting, she might just give up on posting and do something more important. People with lives will tend to ignore forums with a registration process.Registration keeps out lazy assholes who don't bother to register.
* Registration lets in bad posters. On the other hand, people with no lives will thrive on your forum. Children and Internet addicts tend to have free time to go register an account and check their e-mail for the confirmation message. They will generally make your forum a waste of bandwidth.If you are known as bad poster,you have 0 respect.
* Registration attracts trolls. If someone is interested in destroying a forum, a registration process only adds to the excitement of a challenge. One might argue that a lack of registration will just let "anyone" post, but in reality anyone can post on old-type forum software; registration is merely a useless hassle. Quoting a 4channeler: Trolls are not out to protect their own reputation. They seek to destroy other peoples' "reputation" ... Fora with only registered accounts are like a garden full of flowers of vanity a troll would just love to pick.Registration does not "attract" trolls,its merely another step to logging in.
* Anonymity counters vanity. On a forum where registration is required, or even where people give themselves names, a clique is developed of the elite users, and posts deal as much with who you are as what you are posting. On an anonymous forum, if you can't tell who posts what, logic will overrule vanity. As Hiroyuki, the administrator of 2ch, writes: If there is a user ID attached to a user, a discussion tends to become a criticizing game. On the other hand, under the anonymous system, even though your opinion/information is criticized, you don't know with whom to be upset. Also with a user ID, those who participate in the site for a long time tend to have authority, and it becomes difficult for a user to disagree with them. Under a perfectly anonymous system, you can say, "it's boring," if it is actually boring. All information is treated equally; only an accurate argument will work.Anonymity also counters any positive reward(its hard to explain,but people want to be cared for the posts).Not all are altruists.
Anonymous doesn't care about what he posts.
That's true, I don't know how many stupid things I've posted on these boards. And usually I'm pretty careful about that sort of thing. On the upside, I post a whole lot more, so maybe quantity beats quality? Perhaps not.
Japanese's actions are based on whether it is guilty or not.
But American's actions are based on whether it is virturous or not.
So Japanese can slander without hesitation unless it is not illegal,and can wreak their anger.
On the other hand,American,because of their ground,are forced to blame the poster slandering,and can't wreak their anger.
So anonymous is good for Japanese,not for American.
>>265
Do Japanese post to pursue "online coolness" or just to vent off?
what motivates them to start threads? Do they care about the thread they started?
>>265
Most Americans don't give a fuck whether or not their actions are virtuous. WTF are you talking about? Isn't Japan the one with the Samurai code of honor?
I think you must be referring to "shame-based" as opposed to "guilt-based" societies. In this model, Japan would be a "shame-based" society, while the traditional, Christianity-dominated Western world a "guilt-based" one. I don't really know how this model is supposed to apply to internet boards however.
I think this model is over-simplified.
I think nowadays Japanese "shame-based" is getting obsolete and Japanese think they're allowed to do whatever isn't forbiddened by the law,and Japanese may not be former Samurai through westernization and the war.This opinion will not be had only by me but by other many Japaneses.So I don't think my remarks about Japanese must be wrong.
But,reading responses,I learned my notion about Americans had not been right.So I take back my opinions about Americans.
All this deep cultural divide mumbo jumbo bullshit was relevent a century ago.We have a global culture.
Get back on topic.Why this site sucks so much?
>>262
>>263
Registration keeps out intelligent, busy people who don't have time to waste registering/logging on.
Identities are the ONLY way trolls can tear a community apart.
With anonymous posting, a troll doesn't know how many people are posting, or what their personality/interests/pet peeves are.
The IDs are their to distinguish between different sources, not identify people. A new ID can easily be obtained if one needs it and the ID doesn't carry on from thread to thread.
On phpbb, respect is merited out based on Mod/Admin status, post count, early registration date, etc. Rarely is this based upon any kind of contribution these people make.
>>270 What world are you living in? Type 3 civilization??
Wake up to the facts of life.
>Registration keeps out lazy assholes who don't bother to register.
Do you want to go through the hassle going through a registration proccess somewhere, just to say one single thing? I certainly don't, I simply don't have the time to register at every goddamn board I drop by.
>If you are known as bad poster,you have 0 respect.
Point is, you don't keep the bad posters away by requiring registration.
>Registration does not "attract" trolls,its merely another step to logging in.
On an anonymous board, individuals can't be attacked, because we're all nameless. As the quote says, trolls are out to destroy other people's reputation, and that kind of thing only happens when using names.
>Anonymity also counters any positive reward(its hard to explain,but people want to be cared for the posts).Not all are http://4-ch.net/4chaltruists.
>Anonymous doesn't care about what he posts.
I can post good without requiring any credit for it. And seriously, if I, for instance, post a question on a technical discussion board, it doesn't matter if Larry, m00ndust, Steve65 or Anonymous replies, as long as the answer is good. I've been thinking of setting up some GNU/Linux or Free Software board running Kareha, but I'm guessing they wouldn't be popular. Unfortunately, most people seem so focused on being recognized, that they wouldn't do what they are doing if they had to post anonymously.
Cuz it's gay.
too much backloging(too lazy to catch up ._.")well i guess time could be 1 of the reason that 4-ch can't be as active as 2-ch
What if we just spammed GO TO 4-ch.net everywhere? At least people would look.
nice try lol.well i dun think spaming is the way to solve this.i really think if 4-ch had a intresting thred that would bring ppl here just to look at it, that would be awesome
>>280
This is true. One way 2-ch gained so much popularity was media attention. We need an illegal carjacking thread, or a huge beach cleanup - anything that will make the news.
If we go around trying to get people to come here we might attract people who are complete weeaboos, this being a Japanese based site and all. Keep in mind we are not about Japanese culture, it's a site for English speaking nations to discuss stuff anonymously.
>>282 , most people who go to anonymous boards are weeaboos. Either way, ANY activity would benefit the site. Even weeaboos do other things than watching anime/reading manga, I'm sure they would post in many boards rather then just one. As long as they are going to be respectful to others and not troll, they should be good.
>>283
I'm not talking about people who simply watch anime. I am talking about people who only post here because it makes them feel Japanese.
>>284
On that respect, I completely understand. When I look around, half the topics on ANY board are about Japan in some way, shape, or form. Either way, it is still people, and hopefully if more people come up to discuss different subjects, then there will be less of a Japanese orientation.
Although this site is modeled after 2ch, it is a site on it's own, not 2ch into English (which it basically is right now).
The problem still presists though, we need more people. I made the large post about creating topics, and although I believe that would bring more discussion and more people, it won't specifically attract anyone that hasn't come to this site by chance already. I wonder how many people go to 4-ch.net, or how many people just post from iichan? iichan is having people problems of its own except on /azu/.
We could always put links on a forum signature on in our websites/blogs. That would bring some people.
Also, I think I've found our problem.
4-ch IS NOT 2ch.
You can't expect us to bring in all this mona densha stuff and expect more than .00000000001% of the population to get it. The only way for 4-ch to attract more people is to be its OWN site. Sure, we are based of 2ch, but that doesn't mean we ARE 2ch. English speakers and Japanese speakers are a lot different.
In example, look at any of our boards. You will most likely see that almost all of the topics are about something Japanese. Guys, let's all go make topics about stuff that us English speakers will understand. Do you all HONESTLY think that people are going to come in here and start talking about random 2ch memes? In fact, this place would be more active even to its core userbase if we just posted stuff that us English speakers could relate to.
We cannot relate to Japanese culture because we are not Japanese. We CAN relate to American, British, Australian, etc. culture because that is what we are. If we have topics about things that we know about, we are sure to post in them, along with any visitors we get.
If you really want to bring 4-ch up, do these two things.
Like I said, no average person is going to come in here and start talking about how bad they want to visit Japan and bump into a girl on a bus like in Densha. EX. Look at Film & TV. Where are topics about TV shows/movies that aren't Japanese? Go in there and post topics about something you like in your own country. I enjoy King of the Hill, so I'll go make a topic about that.
Another example is the Music board. Congratulations, you like [Insert J-Pop/Rock artist]. You and 100 other people! Why not talk about some english bands you like. Once again, I like DragonForce (who doesn't olol), so I'll make a topic about that.
Anyways, just to rephrase, 4-ch IS NOT 2ch!
Speaks the truth. All this weeaboo shit is boring like watching grass grow. If I would have a postcounter here and you would remove all my trollposts I would have like 3-4 posts. In the timeframe I am here I had a few hundred posts on the bethesda boards.
While I agree that distancing ourselves from 2ch would increase our prospective audience, I can't help but feel that 4-ch remains a niche board for those people who are interested by Japanese net culture and 2ch specifically. I don't know if you can/should change that. As it is, we're like a very mini 2-ch, but somewhat geekier and stupider.
I have a hard time any non-troll who isn't in some degree interested in Japanese culture visiting this board.
I might imagine broadening our scope to include some Korean and Chinese cultural stuff, but it seems we've imported 2-ch xenophobia along with the other stuff. All the posts about Korea are just <丶｀∀´>.
Still, I'm puzzled that more people don't post in the "News" thread. There are some interesting topics there, sometimes.
And let's face it, 4-ch is a Japanese friendly, international board from the start, like a kind of 2ch embassy. Why else would a string of Japanese text direct Japanese speakers to the 日本語 section?
You also have to remember anime isn't weeaboo as long as you're not completely obsessed with it. Just keep all that in the anime board. Basically I brought that up to avoid faggots who do that stupid weeaboo e-mote shit like ^____^ and use Japanese words like kawaii and neko. Don't want this place turning into what 4chan's /b/ is today.
>>289
True but this doesn't mean we are about Japanese culture. We are not 2ch although we are based off of 2ch. Like 2ch we talk about OUR culture. It's embarrassing to us when we have people who try to act like they're part of a different culture, and also Japs are embarrassed when those people base their vision of Japan off of animes. Also I'm not saying to distance ourselves from 2ch but focus on things in our culture to talk about.
>>291
You cannot defeat weeaboos with logic or sane talk. :/
>>292
True that you can't get rid of the weeaboos but we could try to make this place less weeabooish.
>>288
You are correct, 4-ch is a niche board with many Japan lovers, and that's what we always will be. That doesn't mean every single post has to be about Japan stuff though. Seriously, we have AA, DQN, Anime, Manga, etc. People CAN talk about Japan, but none of us can relate to it except the Japanese.